Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Norway]

I wonder if some miners are just buying Bitcoin Cash now and waiting for the difficulty to drop. Maybe we suddenly get 1 minute blocks and Bitcoin Cash more worth than Bitcoin SegWit.

If miners choose to drop the SegWit2x agreement, who is the counterpart taking a loss? Barry?

(EDIT: I should have written 5 minute blocks, not 1 minute blocks. 1 minute is too extreme.)

 

[Roger_Murdock]

Long before Bitcoin Cash became a thing, we heard small-blockers claim that upgrading the network via a (hash power-majority) hard fork was dangerous because it risked splitting the chain whereas a (hash power-majority) soft fork would avoid this risk.

Bitcoin Cash definitively demonstrates how ridiculous this position was. The catalysts for Bitcoin Cash and the accompanying chain split were (a) the hash power majority's decision to push through a controversial soft fork (SegWit) -- necessitating a counter fork by those who didn't want to be swept along and (b) the hash power majority's mind-boggling, multi-year failure to timely implement an obviously-needed hard fork in the form of a block size increase. I also think Bitcoin Cash is demonstrating, and will continue to demonstrate, that "chain splits" are not a "danger" that needs to be feared. They're a healthy mechanism by which the market can discover and express its will in the case of serious controversy.

Really nice (draft) article by Daniel Krawisz addressing the split: How to Face Bitcoin Forks.
[doublepost=1501769765,1501768999][/doublepost]Just saw this epic rant on reddit.

 

[AdrianX]

For those who click things to make them bigger.

 

[79b79aa8]

and as per @AdrianX's recommendation, the natural currency code for Bitcoin Cash is XBC.

start using if you agree.

 

[albin]

I hope I'm not giving them ideas, but I'm shocked that they haven't discovered "Bitcoin Crash" yet!

 

[AdrianX]

and as per @AdrianX's recommendation, the natural currency code for Bitcoin Cash is XBC.

start using if you agree.

I just heard it's used by Bitcoin Plus. WTF is Bitcoin Plus they don't show up in the top 100 so most be a nothing. Anyway they don't have the ISO 4217 Currency Codes, someone should make this happen. I think XBC is Better than XBT anyway.

 

[NewLiberty]

XBC also is alphabetically superior to XBT.
Make it so!

My preferred ticker on the other hand is simply "B"

 

[Norway]

The first Bicoin Cash block contains the string "Welcome to the world, Shuya Yang!".

Is Shuya Haipo's new born kid?

 

[Bagatell]

@Norway Correct - a daughter

 

[lunar]

https://nchain.com/en/blog/nchains-security-inventions/

Two new nChain ideas are being given a little more light. No more Goxings

"Determining a common secret for the secure exchange of information and hierarchical deterministic cryptographic keys"


“Secure Multiparty loss resistant Storage and Transfer of Cryptographic Keys for blockchain based systems in conjunction with a wallet management system,”

 

[megadeth]

Smallblocker fear:

Bcash cost of production (difficulty) is now being slashed by 20% per block for the next 6 blocks. Expect miners to follow cost of production slavishly. Forking guys have no idea what they have unleashed ... it will become apparent soon now.

 

[AdrianX]

The rules are agreed by the people who store value on the blockchain ledger, I'm not sue adjusting the difficulty rule is a deal beaker, all rules are voluntary, people should support whatever rules they think work to maximize cooperation, and value.

I welcome those who mine at a loss, bring it on!

I support those who have stored value and want to move it out of the blockchain too. If they think the rules are broken, they are not. If they were they would have to abandon their claim, but I'll support an exchange, they may just think I'm cheep .

 

[Norway]

Let me see if I get this right:
- The difficulty is now 26% of the pre fork difficulty.
- 0.15 Bitcoin Settlement can buy 1 Bitcoin Cash.
- We have blocks every 20-30 minutes.
- We are half way in a difficulty adjustment period. One week away under normal conditions, but 2-3 weeks away under current conditions.
- Emergency difficulty adjustments are not happening anymore because of too short time between blocks.

So. It's very expensive to mine Bitcoin Cash at the moment. And the current hashpower must do this charity mining for 2-3 more weeks. If some give up, the time until next difficulty adjustment will be even longer.

Right?

 

[megadeth]

@AdrianX Jstolfi with another gem:

Bitcoin-Cash follows Satoshi's design, including his planned increase in the block size limit to avoid congestion; and works just like bitcoin worked for the first 6.5 years.

Bitcoin-Core rejected Satoshi's design in favor of Greg's "two-layer" design, with the original network to be converted into a congested "settlement" layer with a "fee market" that Greg invented for a purpose that was not part of the original design. It also is about to change the block and transaction layount and abuse the script mechanism in a way that was not intended originally.

Logically, Bitcoin should have been renamed GregCoin, way back in 2014 already.

 

[AdrianX]

Yip you got it, @Norway

So. It's very expensive to mine Bitcoin Cash at the moment.

Expensive is a value proposition, Iet's say it's cheep to mine at the moment, if you consider future growth and the fact that return exceeds input costs. There is just a lost short term opportunity cost relative to mining BTC. given BTC is still hobbled with the 1MB bug to limit growth XBC doesn't look that bad.

Even if the difficulty adjustment takes a while we have bigger blocks so no problem with transaction quantity, those mining now are looking long term, if the difficulty drops down the ROI for a miners will go up if there is no competition, or remain relatively stable if they get more completion, as they will just get a smaller piece of a bigger reward pie.

so good for now, excited to see what happens.

 

[adamstgbit]

Let me see if I get this right:
- The difficulty is now 26% of the pre fork difficulty.
- 0.15 Bitcoin Settlement can buy 1 Bitcoin Cash.
- We have blocks every 20-30 minutes.
- We are half way in a difficulty adjustment period. One week away under normal conditions, but 2-3 weeks away under current conditions.
- Emergency difficulty adjustments are not happening anymore because of too short time between blocks.

So. It's very expensive to mine Bitcoin Cash at the moment. And the current hashpower must do this charity mining for 2-3 more weeks. If some give up, the time until next difficulty adjustment will be even longer.

Right?

yes they are minning at a loss right now.

they need to turn off their hashing power or divert it to BTC for a while. so that we get a few more of these -20% dif adjustments

but probably they are more concerned with keeping the blocks coming and not "stalling the blockchain" for some short term gain.

honestly, i would rather they game the system a little bit, so dif goes where it needs to.

 

[79b79aa8]

Coinbase to support Bitcoin Cash:

"Over the last several days, we’ve examined all of the relevant issues and have decided to work on adding support for bitcoin cash for Coinbase customers. We made this decision based on factors such as the security of the network, customer demand, trading volumes, and regulatory considerations.

We are planning to have support for bitcoin cash by January 1, 2018, assuming no additional risks emerge during that time.

Once supported, customers will be able to withdraw bitcoin cash. We'll make a determination at a later date about adding trading support. In the meantime, customer bitcoin cash will remain safely stored on Coinbase."

source: direct email. more information here:
https://blog.coinbase.com/what-is-a-bitcoin-fork-cba07fe73ef1

 

[adamstgbit]

from coin.dance

The Bitcoin Cash blockchain is currently operating at 26% of the original chain's difficulty.

The original chain has grown 301.41MB more than the Bitcoin Cash blockchain.

It is currently 1.94x more profitable to mine on the original chain.

 

[albin]

I was originally a little apprehensive about the timing of hardforking August 1st, and thought maybe it would be better to strategically threaten it to force 2x, but actually getting a feel for things playing out, this is such a cathartic and liberating experience.

I'm just going to hodl assets, and gradually enjoy raking in some profits if and when they happen. Yesterday was the first time ever that I actually sold any BTC at all, a tiny amount of my total holdings, just to have a taste. It finally sunk in, I don't believe in the existence of a "Bitcoin community", fuck those people. Core wants to do what they want, have at it... 2x or block 2x? I don't give a shit! Neckbeards want to pontificate and mansplain their misconceptions about 2nd year micro, have at it! If they come up with anything that has some utility, great, I'll just make money off of what they're doing!

If I want to use something for actual transactional utility, I'll use the asset that's actually supporting making transactions. In the meantime, segwit, MAST, imaginary networks of bi-directional micropayment channels, whatever gay Harry Potter-named prototype math developed by renaissance faire rejects that's probably a decade away from being usable, awesome, keep pumping the misguided vaporware Blockstream, so I can make money off the hype around your stuff.

This is the first time in years that I've actually felt good about what's going on!

 

[NewLiberty]

Expected this.
The main cost for Coinbase is customer support. They deal with so many new bitcoiners.
Cheapest way for them to deal with the fork is to promise nothing. It reduces support calls and time on call.

The technology to support Bitcoin Cash is tiny compared to the cost of humans on the end of a phone for customers to use for technical, (and emotional), support.
They tighten their margin this way, it is mostly a business decision, less so a political one.
This way they let others train the users, and skip the low volume early trading days to make more later.

Coinbase to support Bitcoin Cash:

"Over the last several days, we’ve examined all of the relevant issues and have decided to work on adding support for bitcoin cash for Coinbase customers. We made this decision based on factors such as the security of the network, customer demand, trading volumes, and regulatory considerations.

We are planning to have support for bitcoin cash by January 1, 2018, assuming no additional risks emerge during that time.

Once supported, customers will be able to withdraw bitcoin cash. We'll make a determination at a later date about adding trading support. In the meantime, customer bitcoin cash will remain safely stored on Coinbase."

source: direct email. more information here:
https://blog.coinbase.com/what-is-a-bitcoin-fork-cba07fe73ef1