Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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csw's actions do not guarantee anything. at this point incontrovertible proof would ensure neither BTC doom nor BSV victory.

in my view going into BSV responsibly means assuming there never will be proof, still thinking the tech is superior, and believing superior tech matters in the long run.

yet somehow such a position is inexplicable -- even abhorrent -- to several BCH/BU people (molecular, bagatell, sickpig, awemany, solex, peter_r et alia). they preferred to end their support for unlimited blocksize and their participation in this thread rather than to consider it an option.
 

Zarathustra

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Aug 28, 2015
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csw's actions do not guarantee anything. at this point incontrovertible proof would ensure neither BTC doom nor BSV victory.
You dont know. I dont know. CSW doesn't know either. We can only speculate. Causes guarantee certain effects. The only one who already knows the guaranteed effects is Laplace's demon.
 

AdrianX

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Aug 28, 2015
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Actually, I already know it's dynamic and it's determined probabilistically, and we can all affect the outcome, "we all" is not the observers or the speculators buying the coin, but the investors the makers as opposed to the takers.
 

79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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yet somehow such a position is inexplicable -- even abhorrent -- to several BCH/BU people (molecular, bagatell, sickpig, awemany, solex, peter_r et alia). they preferred to end their support for unlimited blocksize and their participation in this thread rather than to consider it an option
in fairness, there was also a rejection of the patent strategy, and a deep-seated discomfort with legal maneuvering. let's look at this freedom of the free stance a bit more.

in the earliest stages nobody could anticipate BTC ever going to the moon in the way it did (0 to 60K is unbelievable). a sounder, more realistic plan for someone with advance knowledge of the intricate details of the tech would have been to patent and build systems complementing the open protocol. let's call someone in this position an early hawk. an early hawk may but need not have had a hand in establishing the protocol. early hawks that did have a hand establishing the protocol must certainly have worried about whether issuing a token that could hold monetary value would be interpreted as running afoul of the law, von NotHous style.

by contrast, open source devs who came some time later (1) were under the impression that the anon protocol needed improvement and (2) started to believe, based on the course of events, that bitcoin could stand the same ground as fiat currencies, or even replace them. this is in turn consonant with (3) a tendency to be inimical to such pesky governmental intrusions as taxation, financial regulation, and patent enforcement. at the same time (4) second-stage open source devs were not worried about directly running afoul of the law.

the incentives and beliefs of someone who holds (1) and (4) are manifestly in opposition to those of an early hawk. as things turned out, the open source devs, buoyed -- emboldened, even -- by the fact that bitcoin did improbably generate a new asset class (cf. (2)), could afford to ignore or dismiss early hawks. the historic rise of a new, unregulated, cross-border, number-theory secured asset class, in which they played an active role, also reinforced their dislike for taxes, patents, regulations, and legal maneuvers (3).

yet what would have been your plan and how would you have acted if you had been an early hawk?

also imagine you could look at the situation as it is today from a maximally informed but completely detached position: which project would you invest on long term: that of the early hawk's (i use the definite article because there is in fact exactly only one such self-declared project), or that of a 1-4 team (in which case you have more choice)?
 
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AdrianX

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in fairness, there was also a rejection of the patent strategy,
The bitcoin protocol is patent free, ie. no one has control over it, the same can't be said for BTC and even ABC changed the protocol despite CSW saying don't do that as I have a patent for that. So potentially even BCH has a CSW patent in the protocol.

In all reality, patents exist, and you can stop people in the market from innovating and filing patents regardless of your position on the subject, if you don't like a companies' patent strategy invent the idea and patent it first.
 
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79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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In all reality, patents exist, and you can stop people in the market from innovating and filing patents regardless of your position on the subject, if you don't like a companies' patent strategy invent the idea and patent it first.
that's like giving up your freedom though
 

AdrianX

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that's like giving up your freedom though
How so? FYI I've invented what I think is the most valuable idea in the world, when I pitched it to CSW he told me he'd already thought of it and that they'd consider the investment so long as they ended up with the IP.

To stay free I decided to do it, register the IP (imaginary property) without their involvement and keep the IP to maximize freedom for all. So my experience is the opposite.

...and in the case where you don't invent anything just stick with life the way the world is before the innovation existed, you are not obliged to use it. You get to decide if the benefits outweigh the cost, and Bitcoin remains unaffected.
 
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79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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imagine power-tripping junior devs who got access to the repo by fluke making poorly conceived changes to a protocol you have been building on in order to pave the way for the implementation of additional untested unnecessary changes.

unfortunately, it happens. the maneuver is widely known as a 'todd-séchet'.

you are supposed to lay down and take it.
 

_mr_e

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
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Can someone please explain something to be about CSW's argument that bitcoin was set in stone? Why does no one question him on the the fact that if he is Satoshi, then HE HIMSELF changed it by adding the block limit!
 

79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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the block limit is not part of the protocol. it was a safety measure applied to an early software implementation.

but sv does not fully follow the original bitcoin protocol. notably, there is the matter of the DAA, which can't be safely ditched while sv is a minority SHA256 chain.
 
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AdrianX

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I thought Toomin's new DAA was so well researched and designed it would be the solution to the hashrate oscillations as miners manipulate the DAA for profit. It looks less stable every time I take a look. Did Toomin change it so he could extract more mining profit, or did he actually believe he'd improve the protocol by pushing for his change to the rules? Those are some crazy swings on BCH.

 
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