Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
When all the divide-and-conquer efforts unite against a common enemy...
C'mon Jonathan. We can't read your mind. Who's the common enemy in your current mindset?
[doublepost=1555360655][/doublepost]
You are right here as well. I am far too often leaning on the relativistic side. Simply because I see too much unreflecting activity in the world.

I don't know what you mean by miss out big time?

  • Miss out on changing the world?
  • Miss out on making even more money?
Karma yoga
Your work is your responsibility,
not its result.
Never let the fruits of your actions
be your motive.
Nor give in to inaction.

Set firmly in yourself, do your work,
not attached to anything.
Remain evenminded in success,
and in failure.
Evenmindedness is true yoga.

Bhagavad Gita, 2.47-49
He he, ok, I'll be blunt.
You're sleeping at the wheel. You're not taking care of your investments. You're lazy.
Step up you're game, man.

EDIT: And keep yoga out of your business, let your wife take care of the yoga.
[doublepost=1555361079][/doublepost]
ShapeShift To delisting bitcoinSV :

who knows whats next
ShapeShift delisted themselves when they introduced KYC/AML. Their business model (unregulated black market exchange) collapsed at that point. They don't have any pull or relevance.
[doublepost=1555361298,1555360489][/doublepost]I haven't checked the price of BSV in a few days. Been busy launching a protocol for contacless transactions. But it sounds like people are expecting BSV investors to panic. Let me check ...
[doublepost=1555361438][/doublepost]Checked it now. Meh, nothing. Been there, done that.
It's all about where we're going.
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
I created this BUIP, because there is another BUIP about kicking me out of BU, and there's too much politics and hobby lawyers running around in that thread, while the issue is simple.

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip-xxx-kick-norway-out-of-bu.23844/
[doublepost=1555365366,1555364298][/doublepost]Funny how @solex got in a hurry and told me that the other vote to kick me out is going down.

We're talking seconds here after i proposed my own BUIP. (Yes, I did some snapshots at the wayback machine).

I still want my own proposal to be voted on.
 
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shilch

Member
Mar 28, 2019
54
216
ShapeShift To delisting bitcoinSV :
I received word that ShapeShift uses Binance on the backend to perform the swap. So they probably do not want to invest their energy to switch the exchange used in the backend. And they don't offer a fiat gateway anyway, so it's an irrelevant service.
Kraken is more interesting, a competitor will take their place if they decide to delist BSV.
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
I'm not sure if the leadership of Bitcoin Unlimited is capable of entertaining the idea that if the bitcoin protocol is set in stone, there is no room for protocol poiticians anymore.
 
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Norway

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Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
But that's where I and my business is going. To the bitcoin protocol set in stone.

We can't depend on groups of developers "fixing" bitcoin every now and then or having creative epiphanies solving non-problems while changing the basic economics of the system.

Denying/going silent regarding that the new OP_CODE they "invented" could in most cases ("bump the phones for bets") could be replaced by by regular script. Or become obsolete by restoring bignum.

It's like putting a kid in charge of a fighter jet.

It's time for bitcoin to grow up. And to make people hiding on internet responsible for what they do.

Men calling people pedophile and liars without a shred of evidence and hiding in mom's basement need a wakeup call. If you treat these guys nice, they will just continue to do what they do.

BTW, does anyone know who this guy is?
 
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Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
5,585
imo, at this point in time, CSW needs to sign a definitive message with the genesis block key. all in all, the benefits he and BSV would get by this public display would be far greater than any incremental benefits from supposed private signings to date and going forward.
I used to think this, but now I see the game is longer, the scope bigger. If he still has the keys, and I think he does, he is positioned win it all, to shut down just about everyone. Incremental proof, not incremental benefits. If he merely signs, the narrative will quickly shift to "crazy old uncle Satoshi, the money and fame went to his head, we have learned more since." A big, bright flash but no fundamental change. He cannot afford to waste bullets.

If he draws it out and continues to bat 1000 on getting people to overreach to attack him, he can delete the entire DCG/BS/Core and multicoiner empire and their "altcoin casinos" as he calls them. The only reason to be concerned about short term exchange price is hashrate.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
5,585
"Bitcoin is capitalism in code form." -CSW

Just like capitalism, Bitcoin has always been hated by the majority. Just like capitalism, Bitcoin will continue to be hated even as it weaves itself into the fabric of everyone's lives. Just like capitalism, even the people relying on it for their livelihood and very survival will cheer for its abolishment at every opportunity.

A rise in price would be great, but it would also be suspicious. What would you think if an Internet-related stock were pumping in 1992? "Hooray, the people are waking up to the wonders of the Information Superhighway"?

Maybe you'd think that then, but with the benefit of hindsight you'd know that couldn't possibly be. The masses can sometimes smell innovation, but they're never able to identify the exact source. "Something-something blockchain, something-something decentralized" is all they know.

Bitcoin skyrocketed in 2011 and 2013, prompting many of us to cheer that people were catching on. We were right, but wrong in the strong version of that statement. They were catching on that there was something there, but they were far from actually identifying it; it was only the nonexistence of altcoins that allowed the real Bitcoin to benefit pricewise.

In response, a cornucopia of altcoins rushed in to cater to market demand for "something-something decentralized." Bitcoin become a needle in a haystack, albeit neatly placed on the top of the haystack for easy identification.

Then in the next surge, 2017, Corecoin received the lion's share of the benefits. Bitcoin languished with the likes of NEO and Dash. The needle was now fully lost in the haystack and from there the crypto market moved largely in unison. The masses were now pulling the whole stack of hay along because they had no idea where the needle was. Some were misidentifying the silver-painted piece of straw perched at the top as the needle, while others fell into thinking there were many needles.

The path will always be narrow. People will never support Bitcoin - the real Bitcoin - until the misconceptions are all dispelled, the tacked-on assumptions all exposed, and the general cruft is sanded away. In other words, never. Bitcoin will always be hated, because it is capitalism incarnate. It is destined for the same fate, to always and everywhere be the driver of success while being generally maligned as evil and oppressive, or at least requiring a serious overhaul at the hands of a central planner. People will use Metanet to call for the abolition of proof of work, just as people tweet out anti-capitalist slogans on their iPhones today. There's nothing new under the sun.

Now that Bitcoin as originally envisioned is clearly differentiated, the masses have no idea what it is. The adoption of capitalism doesn't happen via the masses identifying it and pumping it, but by businesses and people using it out of sheer necessity. At no point in history did the masses have any love for capitalism, yet if everything that free-market capitalism has added to the world were embodied in an asset, what would its price be? I don't find any reason to worry about exchanges delisting BSV. It doesn't stop people building and doesn't make their building any sillier; maybe less silly in fact, judging from the projects the top coins are into.
 
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majamalu

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
144
775
It seems that CSW supporters simply can't lose.

If it is proven that he lies again and again, that is exactly what he wanted you to think. One day you will understand why.

If he threatens to destroy a rival chain, that is undoubtedly the right thing to do.

If he declares a war and loses it, it is the fault of those who defended themselves.

If his tantrums make people laugh, he will have the last laugh. You'll see.

If he sues everyone and their dog for not submiting to his whims, that's a superb strategy based on his deep knowledge of the legal system, and you need to grow up.

If the threats result in bsv being delisted from exchanges, that is good. Because capitalism.

If price collapses, it doesn't matter, because I'm only interested in what's going to happen 400 years from now.

Is there anything that can be seen as a bad thing?
 

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
Now that Bitcoin as originally envisioned is clearly differentiated, the masses have no idea what it is. The adoption of capitalism doesn't happen via the masses identifying it and pumping it, but by businesses and people using it out of sheer necessity. At no point in history did the masses have any love for capitalism, yet if everything that free-market capitalism has added to the world were embodied in an asset, what would its price be? I don't find any reason to worry about exchanges delisting BSV. It doesn't stop people building and doesn't make their building any sillier; maybe less silly in fact, judging from the projects the top coins are into.
Excellent post. Just a nit-pick:

What does that even mean, 'free market'. Markets are never free. Markets have always been regulated, more or less, through organized violence, aka religion and state. Religion and the state are essential instruments for the construction and preservation of markets. Who constructed religion and state? The swarm, the crowd. Where are markets? Since when are there markets? Since religion and militarism destroyed the autarchy of Dunbar communities. Where are there still nearly no markets, as in the paleolithic? In the rainforest and arctic tundra, within the self-sufficient Dunbar communities. Why don't they construct markets? Because they do not need one. Because they are self-sufficient. When do these last self-sufficient communities also need markets? When missionaries of religion and state smash those communities and demand tribute, aka taxes.

This is the story that the masses of economists do not know and do not understand, let alone the people, because they have been told a different story by the teachers of religion and the state: in the churches and universities. Fairytales.

In contrast to those fairytales, this is science, multidisciplinary science.
http://gerhardbott.de/das-buch/summary-in-english.html

For my taste the most important book in my life. Nowhere did I learn more. He died last October.

Do I love capitalism? No. Capitalism is collectivism. I just detest it less than the feudalistic forms of collectivism, even if it obviously destroys the planet faster than the latter, but in the end of the day, collectivism is always destined to grow rampant until the whole construct collapses. That's why I love anarchy (self-sufficiency) and hate patriarchy (collectivism/militarism/male gods/division of labor). Anarchy is a thing of the past. Those who are called anarchists by CSW are not anarchists. They are idiots.

"Essentially - the economy is an engine that transfers resources into waste." Ugo Bardi


[doublepost=1555399313,1555398476][/doublepost]@majamalu

> It seems that CSW supporters simply can't lose.

Can you? We have big blocks and the metanet that he predicted. What do you have?
Isn't it a bit early to call victory?

> Is there anything that can be seen as a bad thing?

Yes, that's why he blocked me on twitter.
 
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Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
5,585
You make a good point, @Zarathustra. Law matters, and to those in the dark about it everything looks mysterious. As I've started to learn the law and how it works, how it differs from specific government regimes, I have come to appreciate more and more of CSW's actions and statements.

Unfortunately in the real world, @majamalu, subtleties matter. I have not claimed delistings are good nor other things you have suggested there, nor have I supported every action or statement of Craig Wright. I see no need to call out everything I dislike that he does, as there is already enough of that. In the limited time I have to post I'd prefer to point out misconceptions.

It's important to understand that someone operating within a different paradigm will always look wrong in many ways even if they are right. The assumptions are different. I used to assume Bitcoin created its own law, and maybe it will some day, but not today. In fact anyone who is worried about exchanges delisting should be even more worried about government bans, yet in BTC and BCH staying within the longstanding legal traditions covering almost every advanced country isn't even a topic.

The tacit implication of this avoidance of ever discussing law is that law doesn't matter. That's one paradigm; BSV is in quite another. If you don't get that, CSW's actions look perplexing. How can he get away with threatening to doublespend? How can he sue people for calling him names? Why would he bother if he is rich?

You believe it is blind faith, yet that belief is itself based on blind faith that he hasn't given good explanations elsewhere (not what filters through to reddit), that I am just trusting him (and that I support lawsuits and every other thing), that I haven't spent two years researching and thinking about these matters on my own, coming to my own conclusions as I always do. I wish I had more time to share what I have learned here. I can only explain so much per post, especially to those unwilling to do a proper investigation on their own besides what they see on reddit and other cherrypicking sites.

I make an effort to write precisely; the tradeoff is that writing takes time (especially as almost all my posts are written on mobile). The communication simply can't be very productive if I'm interpreted so loosely.
 

solex

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 22, 2015
1,558
4,693
I created this BUIP, because there is another BUIP about kicking me out of BU, and there's too much politics and hobby lawyers running around in that thread, while the issue is simple.

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip-xxx-kick-norway-out-of-bu.23844/
[doublepost=1555365366,1555364298][/doublepost]Funny how @solex got in a hurry and told me that the other vote to kick me out is going down.

We're talking seconds here after i proposed my own BUIP. (Yes, I did some snapshots at the wayback machine).

I still want my own proposal to be voted on.
For the record. I posted my reply to BUIP122 before returning to the subforum and seeing your BUIPXXX post. As I immediately pointed out, we don't need two to vote on.
 

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
When we reach Acceptance stage, the narrative will be "it was all about proving that the market can self regulate".
 
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Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
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"The market is a state bastard" Dr. Paul C. Martin
[doublepost=1555408529][/doublepost]
You make a good point, @Zarathustra. Law matters, and to those in the dark about it everything looks mysterious. As I've started to learn the law and how it works, how it differs from specific government regimes, I have come to appreciate more and more of CSW's actions and statements.
Yes, I've noted that you've approximated your opinion on darknet and law over time to CSW's point of view. All in all, your contributions are high art.
 
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bitsko

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
730
1,532
I don't want to have to vote to remove Imaginary_username, but I feel responsible voting him/her in thinking that inviting the left into BU would in some way be a good thing. And now we have our first political purge.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2015
1,485
5,585
Yes, I've noted that you've approximated your opinion on darknet and law over time to CSW's point of view. All in all, your contributions are high art.
Thanks :)

Yes he has changed my view on these things significantly. I owe those who have listened to my earlier posts on those topics a bridge from there to where I am now (which is still not where CSW is politically; he's basically a classical liberal with a bit of a Randian streak in terms of identity).
 

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