Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

albin

Active Member
Nov 8, 2015
931
4,008
@Jihan

If you check this, can you confirm or deny this story?

Peter Todd and Matt Corallo are claiming on Twitter and/or /r/Bitcoin that your company has announced a facility that can 51% attack the network, but there doesn't seem to be any supporting info I can find anywhere.
 

adamstgbit

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2016
1,206
2,650
Nigerian population ~ 190mil

were gunna need a bigger boat.

good find
if i recall correctly Nigerian had the worst performing currency this year.
seems that when a people's currency is devalued enough the poeple look for alternatives and quickly find bitcoin.

190million poeple all looking to buy 1 BTC = bubble.
 

pekatete

Active Member
Jun 1, 2016
123
368
London, England
icreateofx.com
324million in the US, I doubt even a third use bitcoin. Extrapolating that to Nigeria (a perennially corrupt third world country) and bearing in mind that probably over half of the population live below the line of poverty, that 190M pot dwindles to a measly 30-40M of whom probably just the corrupt elite 5% would have reason to look into diversifying into bitcoin.
 

Justus Ranvier

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
875
3,746
All we'd need to do is change the pow.
Not even that is necessary.

My favorite method for making a fork bidirectionally incompatible is to simply swap the order of any two fields in the block header to make Core reject the blocks. You can keep using the same miners and same proof of work and still have incompatible chains that can't reorg each other.
 

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
When Blockstream come under more pressure I expect DDOS attacks to start again so it might be wise to answer me in a private message so you don't reveal in public a popular hoster among big block proponents.
Anyone could find out in a couple of minutes using bitnodes.21.co which hosters are preferred by big blockers (if there is any skew) :)
 

adamstgbit

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2016
1,206
2,650
All we'd need to do is change the pow. Everyone and their grandma would spin up their computer for the chance to make free money and the cost of mining would quickly rise back up to meet the price of bitcoin, while the attacker and his massive investment are left out to dry. The network would return to confirming transactions. It would be a very stupid attack.
a pow change would be an effective option but it feels a bit like using a nuke on a bees nest.

Not even that is necessary.

My favorite method for making a fork bidirectionally incompatible is to simply swap the order of any two fields in the block header to make Core reject the blocks. You can keep using the same miners and same proof of work and still have incompatible chains that can't reorg each other.
Not even that is necessary.

simply add enough rules as to what constitutes a valid block and then even with >51% of the hash rate miner can't force a block onto the network which does anything other than service the network.

i think its silly the other minners are willing to accept empty blocks.

i think its silly that miners have so much freedom, they are here to service us, we pay them for that.

the block reward should be given to honest miners that behave properly and service us. dont you think?
 
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adamstgbit

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Mar 13, 2016
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Chinese officials are considering policies including restricting domestic bitcoin exchanges from moving the cryptocurrency to platforms outside the nation and imposing quotas on the amount of bitcoins that can be sent abroad
odd they haven't figured out this isn't really possible.

its an all or nothing kinda thing when it comes to "limiting BTC TX" its not like there is a country code inside bitcoin addresses.
 
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lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
@adamstgbit @pekatete

Yup it's just another data point, showing increasing awareness. I wouldn't put much stock in it. The majority don't have banking, any meaningful salary or decent internet access. I will say Nigeria is possibly the most institutionally corrupt country I've ever had the misfortune of working in. Combine this with rapidly devaluing currency and capital controls You have recipe for rapid adoption. (all be if for the morally bankrupt reasons of hiding the nations stolen wealth)

@albin not much news from Jihan here since the last satoshi sandbagging conference. - last seen here 4thAug
 

jbreher

Active Member
Dec 31, 2015
166
526
Some more interesting neo-left SJW-relevant trivia for you, it turns out also that Anthony Weiner is a close personal friend of Jon Stewart going back to their college days.
John Stewart (real name of Leibowitz) has a brother named Larry, who just happens to be (perhaps former) CEO of the NY Stock Exchange.

You just can't make this stuff up, people :)
 

adamstgbit

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2016
1,206
2,650
@lunar
since when is having a bank account a requirement to getting some bitcoin?
also they had enough internet access to max out the google trend graph.
maybe this spike in interests coming from Nigerian wont translate into a price spike right away.
but we might see some really interesting action coming from Nigerian.

how would the market react to Nigerians abandoning their local currency for bitcoin? maybe the government tries to stop the poeple, maybe the people fight back, overthrow the government, adopt bitcoin and start to make huge progress economically? stranger things have happened.
[doublepost=1478194511][/doublepost]http://motherboard.vice.com/read/weed-strain-bitcoin-blockchain
 

adamstgbit

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2016
1,206
2,650
odd they haven't figured out this isn't really possible.

its an all or nothing kinda thing when it comes to "limiting BTC TX" its not like there is a country code inside bitcoin addresses.
i also find it odd that after banning bitcoin a bunch of times,
they are now "considering policies"

maybe the zerohedge article should read:

"
... [ Since 2013 ]Chinese officials are considering policies including restricting domestic bitcoin exchanges from moving the cryptocurrency to platforms outside the nation and imposing quotas on the amount of bitcoins that can be sent abroad.
...
this chart shows how bitcoin went up >200%
while the CNH went down ~10%

Bullish?


"
 
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Nat-go

New Member
Apr 2, 2016
21
30
Hamburg, Germany
Not Bullish, Bullshit!

From the web-page:
"Bitcoin has surged 21% since the end of September as the yuan’s declines accelerated, boosting speculation Chinese investors were buying the cryptocurrency as a hedge against further weakness. With the risk of quicker depreciation rising along with the odds of an impending U.S. interest-rate hike,
Since the end of September the yuan’s decline reversed. The impending U.S. interest-rate hike was delayed to December.

The next paragraph of the web-page stars with:
"In intraday trading, bitcoin erased a gain of as much of 2.6% overnight"
What is bitcoin intraday trading?
 
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Roger_Murdock

Active Member
Dec 17, 2015
223
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instead let me go on a rant about why a minner with >51% is NOT a problem at all.

so what's the problem, with 51% anyway?

one might says: " the miner can do all kinds of nasty things, including block anyone else from minning blocks by orphaning their blocks"

I'll say :" thats only true if you subscribe to the idea that the longest chain, is the valid chain, NO MATTER WHAT.... there is Nothing stopping the other <=49% from forking off of the attackers chain. all that needs to be done as a defence for a 51% attack is to tighten the rules of a valid block, and make it such that even if someone has >51% all they can do is produce valid blocks! rules like reject the block if it does nothing for clearing the unconfirmed TX mem pool, or all TX must be valid with valid sigs ( oh wait thats already a rule -_-). there you go, every time a >51% attacker attacks, the other 49% of network collectively say "That's not a valid block!" the attacker ends up on a worthless fork created by his stupidity, and an honest miner finds a block which is acceptable to everyone else, life goes on uninterrupted."

a thought exercise to the reader, read the above and try to poke a hole in the logic. what kind of >51% attack can't we simply "rule out"?
The problem with malicious soft forks (a.k.a. "51% attacks") is the way that the honest members of the network are automatically "swept along" with them. You say that "there is nothing stopping the other <= 49% from forking off of the attackers chain" and that's true ... except for the coordination cost of organizing such a fork which is going to be non-trivial. The easiest and most powerful way to neutralize a 51% attack is to change the PoW, thereby making the attacker's hardware useless. You're suggesting that the honest members of the network might also be able to neutralize the attack without changing the PoW by "tightening the rules." I'm not sure that's really true though. I think there's a reason that Bitcoin's security model is generally understood to be premised on a majority of the hash power remaining "honest." If there were additional consensus rules we could use to prevent even a mining majority from acting maliciously, presumably we would have already added them, no? My intuition is that the best we could hope for (in a scenario where we're assuming no PoW change and a determined attacker) would be a constant cat-and-mouse game where the honest members of the network would have to keep repeatedly forking to negate every new attack.
 

adamstgbit

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Mar 13, 2016
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cost of organizing such a fork which is going to be non-trivial.
it would be automatic, the block does not fallow the very strict set of rules? it gets orphaned right away! even if majority hashing power is backing it...

If there were additional consensus rules we could use to prevent even a mining majority from acting maliciously, presumably we would have already added them, no?
i dont think so.

I think everyone has simply accepted the fact that 51% is a problem blockchains will always have, Because they never thought that minority hash rate could possibly start to dictate & agree on what the valid chain is. its always been though that minning nodes necessarily need to fallow majority hash rate.

also, 51% is a peter todd, the network has never been under 51% attack, and probably never will be. sure minning pools have at times had >51% hashing power but its not like they started to attack the network which sustains them.... right now 100% of the bitcoin mining ( the most powerful distributed cpu by a factor of 10 or 100) are honest miners, so 51% is so unlikely and becoming increasingly unlikely that there's no reason to solve it.

the idea that the longest chain may not be the valid chain is relatively new. and this idea of having super tight rules that allow the minority to orphen the majority hash rates block, would require a HF with some pretty big changes, its not been considered much, and my guess it wont be considered unless there's a real threat that comes up.
 

cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
(short post today, busy w/ IRL this week)

Zizek always has an interesting take on things. Consider this exposition on the US election and how it may apply to the politics of Bitcoin:

 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
This might be a very unpopular opinion, and I cringe somewhat even saying this but I think that trump could be a relatively positive thing for American politics, a more divided government is less likely to be able to take away the rights and liberties of its citizens. Trump is also very easy to dislike, in many ways a president like Obama or Clinton is more dangerous, arguably a tyrant with a velvet glove is more dangerous then a blatantly obvious fascist like Trump. It also seems like Trump is a political outsider, it also almost seems like the political elite have lost control over their own system after making it function in a more plutocratic manner, there is a type of tragic irony there.

I could not vote for either candidate in good conscience but if you put a gun to my head and made me choose I would vote for Trump.
[doublepost=1478280273][/doublepost]
 
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