Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Norway]

This chart starts in 1971. One year after I was born. But ten years after the private owned bank Federal Reserve betrayed the Bretton Woods agreement from WW2 where the USD should represent real gold, and other countries pegged their currencies to USD. Because it was supposed to be a practical way to peg the different currencies to gold.

In 1965, France was "Fed" up with USD being printed out of control. Charles de Gaulle demanded gold for his USD. He never got the gold, but forced Nixon to go off the (diluted) gold standard in 1971.

This chart does not show a cyclic fiat that is about to recover. "We just have to wait until the growth starts" is what Janet Yellen would say. But there will be no growth as long as it's so easy to print money. And the debt is just building, because fiat=debt.

Neither private bank owners, nor politicians has the discipline to guard the (digital) money printing press. Not even nons have the discipline required.

That's why the current global fiat system will end in hyper inflation. Negative intrest rates are real in EU, Denmark, Sweden and Japan. And it has spread outside of the banking system in two ways. My cousin in Denmark tell me that the company he works for, have to pay interest rate to keep money in the bank. And on Bloomberg, they said some coprporate bonds have negative interest rate. (That means that the company get money to borrow money.)

Here is the chart:

[doublepost=1470687636][/doublepost]@freetrader lol!
[doublepost=1470687941][/doublepost]Awesome from @freetrader

 

[Aquent]

What's he talking about exactly?: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=25.msg159#msg159

 

[Norway]

@Aquent
Must be some kind of bad (Theymos?) hack. Look at his history. The new message is not included!

EDIT: Sorry. I thought the post was new.

 

[Zarathustra]

This chart does not show a cyclic fiat that is about to recover. "We just have to wait until the growth starts" is what Janet Yellen would say. But there will be no growth as long as it's so easy to print money. And the debt is just building, because fiat=debt.

@Norway.
It's not easy to print money (= debt/credit). You need credit to 'print' credit. It's easy to print paper, but it's not easy to print credit. Norway can print credit (money), Venezuela can just print paper, which is not money.

 

[Norway]

@Zarathustra

It IS too easy to print. Even easier with computers.
It's not that easy when intrest rate is 12% per year. It's insane easy when it's 1% per year.

And it's just crazy with negative intrest rates.

It's the same situation in US, Norway, EU, Denmark, Japan and Venezuela. We are just slightly different places in the time line. And we are dependant of each other. Like bitcoin exchanges in different countries. Because arbitrage.
[doublepost=1470695104][/doublepost]Got this from good old Greg:

[doublepost=1470695632,1470694977][/doublepost]@Zarathustra
I agree with a lot of what you say. That debit = credit. That one side of the equation is new debt, the other is new money. And that it's not easy to get a loan as a private person. The people exploiting the system are at the bottom of this graph:

EDIT: Oh god. Now I spent too much blogspace again. Two times in a few days. I forgot how long this graphic was. I PROMISE I'll not do it again (for 9 months), ok guys?

 

[albin]

@Norway

Maybe he did that because until fairly recently you could only block a user off a PM, and probably not everybody knows they expanded the functionality to comment replies.

 

[Norway]

@albin
He will not block me, because he is a control freak. I even told him to block me. But he can't. It's his nature. He wants to know what people say about him. He wants full surveillance, he he.

EDIT: Context. I reference /u/nullc in every debate with /u/midmagic. He calls me a racist out of the blue, and I see him mopping the floor after Greg's comments. So I'm giving him a hard time.

I respect all you guys debating this 1000-guy. And I whish I could do it myself. But I come to a point where an eye for an eye is ok. Even if it makes the world blind. Because blind is better than oppression. (Sorry old hero, Gandhi).

 

[Norway]

Jeez, some people are trying to hack me. Two emails the last 4 days. Pretending to be be from Microsoft and Skype. Must be Midmagic/Nullc behind it. I have a pretty open profile, I'm Stein H. Ludvigsen, organizer of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup (with 365 members, 20 guys at every meetup once a month.)

My private email is mail@shludvigsen.com

Come and get me, suckers! LOL!!!

 

[Aquent]

Interesting ancient thread on the never ending debate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287.0;all

 

[Justus Ranvier]

@Norway Sometimes I wonder if western civilization gave up on dueling as a dispute resolution technique a bit too early.

 

[Aquent]

Nah https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=994.msg12168#msg12168

Check out his previous comment on same thread as well btw

 

[Norway]

@Norway Sometimes I wonder if western civilization gave up on dueling as a dispute resolution technique a bit too early.

Maybe. The problem isn't talk and logic in itself. The problem is how these expressions can be exploited.

I'm 45 and worked a lot in newspapers in my life (as journalist and editor).

I love debates, but I also see the weakness of debate. The way politicians avoid direct questions on tv. And they took a fucking class to learn it!

It's ok for me, as long as we have the freedom of speech. But we don't! /r/bitcoin etc show that.

It's a fucking war, where some interests try to slow down (and kill if they could) bitcoin.

EDIT:
@Justus Ranvier
You should check out the childish debate/war between midmagic and me at reddit. Just don't waste too much time on it. Because the game is about wasting the other guy's time

 

[Norway]

Fresh from my war on terror:

It's becoming evident. Blockstream is not a real company with a real CTO. Not a real company trying to make money. It's just a propaganda hoax, organized by special interests. I mean... what CTO in a big, serious company would sink down to this low level?

I think my (drunk) asymetrical tactics are working! Hit them hard at keyboard level, and they show their weakness. At least at this point.

I'm a nerd, but I know our weakness is trust in logics. And focus on that.

That's why the stupid dick is running the company you work for.

Let's not let the dicks take bitcoin away. From us. And from the normal people around the world.
[doublepost=1470709948,1470709009][/doublepost]The fucking idiot Greg Maxwell thinks he is making a bet with me! What a loser!
[doublepost=1470710404][/doublepost]The saga goes on:

It should be a given to a hustler, but I'm going to squeeze him for info the moment before I'm supposed to pay. Not expecting anything, but still fun

 

[Norway]

Blockstream is an anagram of Ma cockblocker

 

[albin]

@Norway

What a weird guy, he seems to be preoccupied with a self-image of being richer than everyone else. Over the years I've heard numerous accounts of Maxwell bragging through PM's of how wealthy he is.

 

[Zarathustra]

@Zarathustra

It IS too easy to print. Even easier with computers.
It's not that easy when intrest rate is 12% per year. It's insane easy when it's 1% per year.

And it's just crazy with negative intrest rates.

But,
interest rates are negative because of
1) capital flight from territories whithout credit
2) creation of additional credit (money) is too slow

Creation of additional credit (money) is slow because at some point the marginal return on investment in additional credit turns negative. That's the market. Rise and fall.

http://economicedge.blogspot.ch/2011/10/monetary-madness-part-ii-diminishing.html

 

[Andre#]

Interesting ancient thread on the never ending debate https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287.0;all

"1 BTC will likely always be smaller than USD/EUR/etc, thus meaning that it can be used for micropayments." -- Lovely to read those old threads.

 

[Richy_T]

I love debates, but I also see the weakness of debate. The way politicians avoid direct questions on tv. And they took a fucking class to learn it!

That's not so much the weakness of debate but the way debate has been neutered in the media. When interviewing a politician, the interviewer will ask a question and if it is not answered, they will move on (with a couple of notable exceptions). Typically the questions will have been presented and prepared for beforehand in any case. And don't even get me started on the US presidential "debates". Putting a bunch of people up on stage, firing questions at them and allowing them to speechify back is not a debate. Put these clowns around a table for three hours with an unlimited supply of coffee and alcoholic beverages and two or three broad topics of discussion and let's see what comes out.

 

[cliff]

-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1
~$586 | $1338.78 | $1345.5
-------------------------------------
GBTC | SPDR Gold Trust ETF
$92 | $127.76
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas| Copper | Crude (WTI)
1.59 | $215.3/lb| $43.34/barrel
-------------------------------------
NEWS + COMMENTARY

# btc general

• Coin Center concerned about newly proposed language for California’s bitcoin legislation
  • [Text] “The bill would prohibit a person from engaging in the digital currency business without enrolling in the program and would prohibit the conduct of digital currency business through an unenrolled agent.”
  • [Text] “ The bill would also require the person to provide fingerprints and would authorize the commissioner to deliver the fingerprints to law enforcement agencies.”
  • [Text] “The bill would prohibit an enrollee in the program from advertising products, services, and activities without a statement regarding the program and that a government agency has not reviewed the safety or soundness of the business or digital currencies.”
  • [Text] “ The bill would authorize the commissioner to include in civil actions claims for ancillary relief, including restitution and disgorgement, on behalf of a person injured, as well as attorney’s fees and costs . . . .”
  • [Text] (d) “Digital currency business” means the business of offering or providing the service of storing, transmitting, exchanging, or issuing digital currency.“Digital currency business” does not include the following:
    • (1) Transmission of digital currency where the transaction is undertaken for nonfinancial purposes and does not involve the transfer of more than a nominal amount of digital currency necessary to complete the transaction.
    • (2) Online games or gaming platforms that use digital currency that (A) have no market or application outside of those games or gaming platforms, (B) cannot be converted into, or redeemed for, fiat currency or digital currency, and (C) are not redeemable for real-world goods, services, discounts, or purchases.
    • (3) Customer affinity or rewards programs that use digital currency that can be redeemed for goods, services, or for purchases with the issuer or other designated merchants, but cannot be converted into, or redeemed for, fiat currency or digital currency that is not part of the customer affinity or rewards program.
    • (4) Issuance of a credit card voucher, letter of credit, or any value that is redeemable only by the issuer for goods and services provided by the issuer or its affiliate, except to the extent required by applicable law to be redeemable in cash for its cash value.
    • (5) A person or entity developing, distributing, or servicing digital currency network software.
    • (6) A person or entity contributing software, connectivity, or computing power to a digital currency network.
    • (7) A person or entity providing data storage or cybersecurity services for an enrolled digital currency business, if the data storage or cybersecurity services do not store digital currency.
• How to use Bitcoin in business
• Blockchain Alliance and Law Enforcement
• Bitcoin law practice?

# btc intersections

• S.E.C. monitoring tech firms for ties to Syria
• iphone 7 facilitating VR?
• Facebook testing out commercial internet service in India
• Bank of England Brexit plan challenged by world awash with cheap money
• US labor productivity down for third quarter in a row

-------------------------------------
OTHER

• Stuck the landing
• Oil traders must say goodbye to Yahoo Messenger
• WHAT MAKES A CURRENCY? – THE BITCOIN PHENOMENON
• Bitcoin: a beginning of a new phase?
  • “Our results suggest that despite maintaining a moderate volatility, Bitcoin remains typically reactive to negative rather than positive news. Bitcoin market is still, therefore, far from being mature.”

-------------------------------------
AM TRIBUTE

 

[Richy_T]

@Norway , always surprised at how small silver is in that chart.