Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[bitsko]

2015 was when i got into thinking about it

 

[AdrianX]

If one works with probabilities, then one need not be wrong, one can shift focus to the more likely probability given the variables. Over time one presumably just gets better at weighting the variables.

I like working that way because one can avoid being wrong while learning, correcting and optimizing for the most likely probabilities.

Post automatically merged: Feb 27, 2021

protect the public interest.

That CSW may talk a good game but the law is not always in support of the public interest, and that is becoming more apparent as time passes, if I read that correctly he's advocating to diminish freedom by forcing service providers to regulate internet usage.

Here in Canada at least sharing and copying a few years ago was legal and deemed to be in the public interest. With the onset of the trend towards tyranny multinational corporations convinced legislators to change the law to favour their financial interests and make it illegal.

 

[cbeast]

When CSW is talking about law, he's not talking about statutes. He's generally not even talking about specific cases. This is about international law, you know, the kind that keeps us from nuking everything. He uses English law because that's what he's familiar with, but he's talking more about the spirit of those laws. The lawsuit isn't about getting coins back, he knows he can't, but instead that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. BSV is useful for everyone. BTC will be globally banned because like China, nobody will allow it to have liquidity and even nations won't want it for a global reserve currency because it has no liquidity. You can only buy so many Teslas, after all.

 

[AdrianX]

This is about international law, you know, the kind that keeps us from nuking everything.

LOL, The international law the US ignores when it drops tons of spent uranium bobs in Afghanistan or the type of International law where Iraque is invaded without provocation after complying with every UN inspection to prove they don't have weapons of mass destruction or the International law that protected Syria from allied invasion?

CSW should be more clear.

I could still be confused if he was talking about the international law that requires AML and KYC laws where we need to declare $10,000 dollars when we cross a border, to prevent terrorism. Laws enacted 20 years ago and 20 years later that $10K is worth half as much and it's still a $10K restriction at this rate we'll need KYC compliance to go shopping.

Laws don't stop war, they create the frustration that fuels them. The Pentagon admitted to miscalculating $2.1T on September 10th, 2001, and on September 11th no one gave a shit. Reportedly there is $21T unaccounted for in military spending. You know what finds terrorism is not the savings of hard-working people seeking out a living through mutual cooperation, it's a war machine that prints money out of nothing and pays people to do things in their interests, then sends in their military to fix the problem and take over.

That International law failed when the world's policeman became corrupted.

But anyway listening to CSW's "welcome to law" interviews it seems clear he's not talking about International law, but jurisdictional law where you relocate your business headquarters for favourable tax to a jurisdiction with favourable legal privileges and where jurisdictions compete, Then again it's probably me who didn't understand his English.

In that world, we'll all succumb to US tyranny. Anarchy, where the power of money is separated from the ability to use force, seems to be the best solution for cooperating peacefully, but CSW wants none of that if I listen to his disdain for the idea.

 

[bitsko]

yes to the contrary it appears he will lay the groundwork to compel nearly all anarchists to exit bitcoin

 

[Zarathustra]

Anarchy, where the power of money is separated from the ability to use force, seems to be the best solution for cooperating peacefully, but CSW wants none of that if I listen to his disdain for the idea.

That's an oxymoron. Fantasyland. This is the reality:

Private property as de iure institution needs a foregoing state to come into existence. The state needs foregoing power and foregoing power needs armed force. The ultimate “foundation of the economy” thus is the weapon, where possession and property are identical because the possession of it guarantees property of it. Armed force starts additional production (surplus, tribute). The first taxes are contributions of material for the production of attack weapons (copper, tin). Thus non-circulating money begins. Taxes as “census” and money are the same.

As soon as defence and protection of the (property-)title power executed by armed force in war and peace needs mercenaries (soldiers from outside the power system) the one-waymoney turns into circulating “genuine money” in modern sense and its material changes from weapon-fitting to precious metal and actually into any material which can be monopolized by the state.

Interest also at first is the tax (census) itself. The state, that must exist before property and property-based contracts which only can be executed with use of armed force, can’t be financed out of property or income which can only appear after its existence. Therefore the state faces the problem of pre-financing itself (power, sovereignty) and it must draw on later tributes or taxes. This “interest”, which always starts with power-based and never with “private” titles is nothing but a discount, thereby rather a discount of the state-owned property (monopoly of armed force) or property rights (monopoly of taxation) than any private “property premium” or even an mysterious item that “enlarges” something. Interest than is the partition (cession) of forced or expected income (as measured in the state-owned monopoly to declare “legal tender”) or property (goods) by the party which will get this income or property (goods) with other parties. The more (existing) property is ceded by the state to the private sector or can be created as income after cession to the private sector in the private (non-state) sector the longer the process called “creation of wealth” (recte: later income or property) can endure, because the more power-sustaining taxes can be imposed. Nonetheless the breakdown of all property-systems is inevitably. This we actually can study watching the exploding indebtedness of “democratic” powers. The problem of state power vs. private economic activities is per definitionem unsolvable. Wealth creating inevitably sooner or later leads to wealth destruction. This explains “rise and fall” of any power- or state-based system throughout history.

http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/Martin-Symp.pdf

 

[AdrianX]

This is a wind blowing in the right direction: Bitcoin at 'tipping point,' Citi says as price surges

Bitcoin, which hit a record high of $58,354 in February, could in the future become the preferred currency for international trade or face a “speculative implosion”, Citi said.

What's the takeaway....? Bitcoin is a binary speculative play, it's either going to be worth a lot or nothing. So Institutions can't afford to ignore it, nether can they afford to over speculate (or someone who owns 1,100,000 coins or the lambo boys could call their bluff)

The net result is... just invest a little to hedge for the up side risk, and the net result of that is coin distribution, aka the growing network effect, and with that comes an increase in value.

 

[AdrianX]

Private property as de iure institution needs a foregoing state to come into existence. The state needs foregoing power and foregoing power needs armed force. The ultimate “foundation of the economy” thus is the weapon, where possession and property are identical because the possession of it guarantees property of it. Armed force starts additional production (surplus, tribute). The first taxes are contributions of material for the production of attack weapons (copper, tin). Thus non-circulating money begins. Taxes as “census” and money are the same.

I think we probably agree on a lot, but not all of that. The reason private property (land ownership) is an innovation is because it solves the tragedy of the commons problem that arises when populations grow past an ecological balance. The net result is an imbalance in the distribution of individual wealth (aka natural capital) but it comes with a productivity gain, eg, an incentive to put the land to optimal use. That's a net benefit, greater than the sum of the parts, a negative externality is it comes at the cost to all and affects some disproportionately, hence the observation that "Property is Theft", it's just a matter of timing and perspective.

I don't agree with the hypnosis of the evolution of the state. I can agree that monopolies granted by the state create imbalances, and in turn, create a loop that results in the concentration of power tax, oppression and the unnecessary use of force. The resulting "rise and fall”, is a function of balance. Ultimately increases in societal complexity that happens in order to manage the imbalances end up costing more than the benefits they afford. (those imbalances are mostly social and environmental)

I think once the separation of money and state has catalyzed we'll see a new incentive structure evolve. Potentially property on the blockchain can enable new ways of accounting that are more efficient than anything we've seen to date.

 

[xhiggy]

This is a wind blowing in the right direction: Bitcoin at 'tipping point,' Citi says as price surges



What's the takeaway....? Bitcoin is a binary speculative play, it's either going to be worth a lot or nothing. So Institutions can't afford to ignore it, nether can they afford to over speculate (or someone who owns 1,100,000 coins or the lambo boys could call their bluff)

The net result is... just invest a little to hedge for the up side risk, and the net result of that is coin distribution, aka the growing network effect, and with that comes an increase in value.

Numbers go up because numbers go up is true it turns out.

 

[Zarathustra]

Leading Pioneering Crypto ETP Issuer Expands Market Position With Centrally Cleared Ethereum And Bitcoin Cash ETPs On Deutsche Boerse XETRA

Leading Pioneering Crypto ETP Issuer Expands Market Position With Centrally Cleared Ethereum And Bitcoin Cash ETPs On Deutsche Boerse XETRA

Frankfurt | Zurich - 05 March 2021 - The board of directors of 21Shares AG is delighted to announce a world first and the taking of another leap forward...

www.globenewswire.com

Probably only a matter of time until unregulated exchanges ('bucket shops') will be delisted on the global market.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Probably only a matter of time until unregulated exchanges ('bucket shops') will be delisted on the global market.

How do you delist an exchange?

 

[AdrianX]

LOL, A "Bucket Shop" has a definition in law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market) it practically describes derivatives and futures markets. The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) is by definition a crypto bucket shop.

Crypto exchanges, or as CSW prefers them be defined, Digital (or virtual) asset exchanges, opposing the use of the word crypto, are not actually bucket shops, but on and offramps for virtual assets. Maybe if they allow you to trade on margin or more likely analogous if you can trade on margin with USDT.

Other than that, I think CSW's just bitter that he had to close down his exchange because "the law" said so where other exchanges have found a way to stay open as opposed to giving up.

nChain, rather than have your lead scientist accuse every competitor that beat you at your game, a Bucket Shop, just compete and do better.

 

[Zarathustra]

LOL, A "Bucket Shop" has a definition in law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market) it practically describes derivatives and futures markets. The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) is by definition a crypto bucket shop

Bucket shops were found in many large American cities from the mid-1800s but the practice was eventually ruled illegal and largely disappeared by the 1920s.

I think once the separation of money and state has catalyzed we'll see a new incentive structure evolve. Potentially property on the blockchain can enable new ways of accounting that are more efficient than anything we've seen to date.

Money is per se a thing of the state. It never got seperated in 5'000 years.
Ancaps are as clueless as communists.

 

[Zarathustra]

How do you delist an exchange?

In 2020, NL closed NLexch, and Chile closed Chilebit. In other words, they are now delisted on the market.

 

[Zarathustra]

I think we probably agree on a lot, but not all of that. The reason private property (land ownership) is an innovation is because it solves the tragedy of the commons problem that arises when populations grow past an ecological balance. The net result is an imbalance in the distribution of individual wealth (aka natural capital) but it comes with a productivity gain, eg, an incentive to put the land to optimal use. That's a net benefit, greater than the sum of the parts, a negative externality is it comes at the cost to all and affects some disproportionately, hence the observation that "Property is Theft", it's just a matter of timing and perspective.

Before and beyond patriarchy (= no state, no economy) there is no overpopulation. There is no overpopulation in the rain forest. Neither in the past nor today.

Why? Because the women did not have to work when they raise their children. Women who breastfeed their children for 3-4 years will be sterile during this time. That changed with the invention of patriarchy (monogamy horror / terror) when the explosion of the population started at the same time and women mutated in working and birthing machines, where there is no more time to breastfeed the children.

Progress!

 

[cbeast]

LOL, A "Bucket Shop" has a definition in law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market) it practically describes derivatives and futures markets. The Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) is by definition a crypto bucket shop.

Crypto exchanges, or as CSW prefers them be defined, Digital (or virtual) asset exchanges, opposing the use of the word crypto, are not actually bucket shops, but on and offramps for virtual assets. Maybe if they allow you to trade on margin or more likely analogous if you can trade on margin with USDT.

Other than that, I think CSW's just bitter that he had to close down his exchange because "the law" said so where other exchanges have found a way to stay open as opposed to giving up.

nChain, rather than have your lead scientist accuse every competitor that beat you at your game, a Bucket Shop, just compete and do better.

There are risk management rules with derivatives. The assets held by derivatives are rated by risk assessments. Not saying they don't cheat, but the crypto bucket shops have no rules and are simply grifters.

 

[AdrianX]

As CSW points out Law screws things up. Copying is by definition progress, only the state or mentally ill people want to prevent it and create a monopoly to extract rent where no rent would otherwise be possible.

He's correct Bitcoin does not solve that, Bitcoin merely allows one to use the global time sequencing server. What's new, and in a world where virtual properties can now exist a time-stamping server is progress we can identify the first claim and universally agree based on a reality in time.

Also, CSW probably failed to appreciate that law and anarchism are complimentary.

Money is per se a thing of the state. It never got seperated in 5'000 years.

The same could be said of religion.

 

[AdrianX]

but the crypto bucket shops have no rules and are simply grifters.

It's probably easier to avoid a true grifter and there is practically no way they become too big to fail. I think given the chance I'd rather be burned and have society's immune system respond, than allow the modern legally compliant variant to grow like cancer. but that's just me,

 

[Zarathustra]

As CSW points out Law screws things up. Copying is by definition progress, only the state or mentally ill people want to prevent it and create a monopoly to extract rent where no rent would otherwise be possible.

No, you should be able to decide for yourself whether you want to market your idea/song/book yourself, or whether you leave it to Amazon and Google for free.
You will not invest a billion dollars in vaccine development if the result of that investment is allowed to be copied.

 

[Zarathustra]

Beeple sold an NFT for $69 million

Beeple sold an NFT for $69 million

“I do view this as the next chapter of art history.”

www.theverge.com

Should communists be allowed to copy this art work for free?