Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
- Thread starter cypherdoc
- Start date
Christoph Bergmann
Active Member
Go to very well known software, download it, cut the machine of from internet. If paranoid or bad system security, start with a live CD. Even if the well know code had an exploit, it could only do some bad entropy thing... Which, in general, is much better on any laptop than in trezor or ledger minichips.
With a hardware wallet you buy more potential vulnerabilities, like a manipulated device. And you usually don't check if the pre-installed software is the correct one (and afaik it's much more complicated than a bip32 Javascript).
All hardware wallet recommend to write down the seed. So you have the same security as a paper wallet anyway plus any potential weakness of the device.
Paper lives much longer than a machine.
I wouldn't say it is scam. It just exploits bad knowledge of users. For everyday use a software wallet is fine, for long term saving a paper wallet is better, or an encrypted USB stick. There is a niche case, when you need regularly hot wallet transactions with very high amounts (sth like 100k), where they might make sense. But I am very sure this is only a fraction of some hundred thousand users which bought hardware wallets.
With a hardware wallet you buy more potential vulnerabilities, like a manipulated device. And you usually don't check if the pre-installed software is the correct one (and afaik it's much more complicated than a bip32 Javascript).
All hardware wallet recommend to write down the seed. So you have the same security as a paper wallet anyway plus any potential weakness of the device.
Paper lives much longer than a machine.
I wouldn't say it is scam. It just exploits bad knowledge of users. For everyday use a software wallet is fine, for long term saving a paper wallet is better, or an encrypted USB stick. There is a niche case, when you need regularly hot wallet transactions with very high amounts (sth like 100k), where they might make sense. But I am very sure this is only a fraction of some hundred thousand users which bought hardware wallets.
bitsko
Active Member
- Aug 31, 2015
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I only use the one made many years ago, hoping simply that time has tested such
[doublepost=1580607460][/doublepost]
BIP 39 passphrase?
BldSwtTrs
Active Member
- Sep 10, 2015
- 196
- 583
Thinking about that recently as I am watching many CSW interviews.
He brings very often that he will soon have more patents filled than Thomas Edison.
This repeated occurrences mean it is a big life goal for him, one bearing a lot of meaning.
And I don't think it is possible to file thousands of patents without some copy/pasting.
Yes he should give credit to the source, but I guess his life goal is more important for him than being ethical. Like most humans when they place themselves in a competitive paradigm.
That's also mean nChain is a corporation whose processes are designed to optimize the filling of a high number of patents. Corporate processes don't really care about ethics.
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Stolfi posted something on that recently and it got me thinking too. At its worst, it looks bad esp given his stated position on plagiarism. So it proves to be delicious material for those wanting to re-affirm their Aussie man bad line of reasoning. (Regardless of the fact that has no bearing on whether or not he created bitcoin - note not 'invented' as CSW has himself admitted that much of it was already done, all he did was put the pieces together.)
However it is precisely because of his stated position that I am inclined to think it is more of an oversight to do with the fact he has read so many texts, that the lines start to blue between what is recall and what is original thought.
I'm nowhere near on that level, but I will sometimes have thought or say something (or even write something down) which I can't be sure is original or if its something I read/heard.
I have only ever had a single chapter in a book published, I think I cited everything. Honestly though, I don't know if anything I wrote might closely correspond to something I once read. That's with a regular peon brain. I imagine if you have an eidetic memory (alluded to but not specifically confirmed to my knowledge) then it might be possible to accidentally a whole proof.
More to the point, it seems like a sideshow distraction. Somewhat typical of Zectro and his ilk.
However it is precisely because of his stated position that I am inclined to think it is more of an oversight to do with the fact he has read so many texts, that the lines start to blue between what is recall and what is original thought.
I'm nowhere near on that level, but I will sometimes have thought or say something (or even write something down) which I can't be sure is original or if its something I read/heard.
I have only ever had a single chapter in a book published, I think I cited everything. Honestly though, I don't know if anything I wrote might closely correspond to something I once read. That's with a regular peon brain. I imagine if you have an eidetic memory (alluded to but not specifically confirmed to my knowledge) then it might be possible to accidentally a whole proof.
More to the point, it seems like a sideshow distraction. Somewhat typical of Zectro and his ilk.
cypherblock
Active Member
- Nov 18, 2015
- 163
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The bottom line to me is that most people do not maintain an air gapped machine and that therefore even if you are doing infrequent transactions, a hardware wallet makes a lot of sense if large values are involved.
Mobile wallets are fine for small amounts, but with crypto threatening to moon again you never know when that $10 becomes $1000 or more.
Storing $10k on mobile phone, probably a bad idea. Storing $10k on paper wallet is fine (if it is locked up) until you go to transact and enter your key on compromised connected PC (most people). So they are really protecting against people who won't ever go to the steps of using air gapped machine to transact.
In fact an air gapped PC capable of signing a tx is pretty much exactly what a hardware wallet is. And both hardware wallets and air gapped machines are vulnerable to physical attack.
Probably the biggest threat for hardware wallet is a supply chain attack (or rogue malicious manufacturer). It is theoretically possible that Trezor or Ledger could have from the start been using backdoored system (or just bad random generator) to generate keys (24 words) and this attacker is just lying in wait to retrieve everyone's bitcoin. So far I've heard no indication of this, so no reason to say they are scammy.
We have definitely seen in the wild people buying 2nd hand Trezor's on eBay and not resetting them (and even then probably a bad idea to buy 2nd hand), so that attacker already knows the keys. But eBay scam doesn't make the industry a scam.
shilch
Member
- Mar 28, 2019
- 54
- 216
A 3.2GB block has been mined on Genesis Testnet. Only 7 transactions but these contain large non-standard scripts: https://gt.whatsonchain.com/block-height/8841
lunar
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 1,001
- 4,290
Yeouch.. Ticker theft could be expensive? This case will likely have far reaching consequences, i'm watching closely.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-federal-court-judge-allows-172400968.html
"One point raised by the Judge was if the Court could rule if the Satoshi White Paper, which initially defined Bitcoin, could be considered a binding contract or rules among users in the Bitcoin industry. The Court left the possibility that it might be addressed at some point."
"It alleges that the Defendants collectively engaged in unfair methods of competition, and through a series of deceptive and unfair practices, manipulated the Bitcoin Cash network for their benefit and to the detriment of UnitedCorp and other Bitcoin Cash stakeholders. It further alleges that these actions resulted in the network losing more than US $4 billion in unrecoverable value to network participants at the time as a direct result of the alleged hijacking of the network. This, in addition to a forced network fork with the implementation of their specific new rules set in the Bitcoin ABC 0.18.5 version under the control of the Defendants."
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-federal-court-judge-allows-172400968.html
"One point raised by the Judge was if the Court could rule if the Satoshi White Paper, which initially defined Bitcoin, could be considered a binding contract or rules among users in the Bitcoin industry. The Court left the possibility that it might be addressed at some point."
"It alleges that the Defendants collectively engaged in unfair methods of competition, and through a series of deceptive and unfair practices, manipulated the Bitcoin Cash network for their benefit and to the detriment of UnitedCorp and other Bitcoin Cash stakeholders. It further alleges that these actions resulted in the network losing more than US $4 billion in unrecoverable value to network participants at the time as a direct result of the alleged hijacking of the network. This, in addition to a forced network fork with the implementation of their specific new rules set in the Bitcoin ABC 0.18.5 version under the control of the Defendants."
79b79aa8
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2015
- 1,031
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much of the early hatred of BSV was fanned by this lawsuit, filed not by nchain or CSW as repeatedly suggested but by http://unitedcorp.com, whom we have to thank for testing the law, and for shining clear light on certain developers' actions.
In what way? isn't this a variation of the 'some tx are spam' problem... ie, if they pay it's ok.
I don't think it can be DOS attack, as its my understanding that SV process tx in parallel and only has a limited number of threads for "non-std" tx, so that regular tx still flow. Not sure if that is in the current release, or genesis or coming soonTM
[doublepost=1580732679][/doublepost]@79b79aa8 why let facts get in the way of good old witch hunt?
> One point raised by the Judge was if the Court could rule if the Satoshi White Paper, which initially defined Bitcoin, could be considered a binding contract or rules among users in the Bitcoin industry.
> It alleges that the Defendants collectively engaged in unfair methods of competition
This kind of behavior is not uncommon and is fair game. BSV lost the ticker and got delisted because they misplayed their hand so badly.
> It alleges that the Defendants collectively engaged in unfair methods of competition
This kind of behavior is not uncommon and is fair game. BSV lost the ticker and got delisted because they misplayed their hand so badly.
79b79aa8
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2015
- 1,031
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@sgbett i think you missed cypherdoc's sarcasm.
@trinoxol BSV wanted neither the ticker, nor the short term victory, nor the rotten company. this is alt mentality. BSV is also not primarily seeking to be listed on exchanges of digital assets, but to offer a product suited for massive use. the product is delivered -- if use follows, the rest will seem quaint lore.
@trinoxol BSV wanted neither the ticker, nor the short term victory, nor the rotten company. this is alt mentality. BSV is also not primarily seeking to be listed on exchanges of digital assets, but to offer a product suited for massive use. the product is delivered -- if use follows, the rest will seem quaint lore.
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BSV might not care about the ticker but it cares about businesses not being turned off from coming on board.
I really need to get the following out. Let me be clear that I support BSV. I want it to win. Pinging @shadders and @Peter R. It would behoove the BSV community to understand the following:
When you...
...try to financially ruin private people with lawsuits (e.g. Cormack)
...come out as Satoshi in such a way as to create maximal doubt as to whether you are an impostor or not
...threaten to destroy other coins through a hash war, "bleed them" and shut down any activity for two years
...threaten to destroy the ecosystem of other chains through patents
...make very dubious legal claims, such as a legal right to be listed, or the idea that the whitepaper was some kind of contract
...consistently exhibit the most egregious social behavior on Twitter until you get banned
...routinely call others "morons" on social media
...draw guns during interviews
then others will start opposing you. They will oppose you more than they oppose outright scam coins. Basic human decency is not optional.
When you behave so obnoxiously that exchanges need to guard their reputation by dissociating themselves from you, then you reap the consequences of your actions with that.
To this day, Coinbase does not list BSV. This is egregious. How can this be? Is this because Coinbase is making a mistake, or is it because BSV has so thoroughly damaged its reputation?
BU should support BSV with all their hearts, but they dropped it. Peter Rizun is more closely aligned with BSV than BCH, but he can't support BSV at this time. Exchanges delist. Even ShapeShift delisted although the CEO is dedicated to a cryptocurrency and multicoin future.
The fact is that the advancement of BSV was damaged needlessly. This damage will be overcome. But let's not pretend it's someone else's fault. Let's also not pretend that these delistings etc. were somehow a good thing.
The BSV community needs to put a stop to this behavior by speaking out against it. Tolerating this is what makes us seem like a cult, and alas there is some truth to this. We should not be a cult. We should be a rational, goal-oriented group of people. The behaviors that I listed above hurt us all, no matter what is our place in the BSV space.
I really need to get the following out. Let me be clear that I support BSV. I want it to win. Pinging @shadders and @Peter R. It would behoove the BSV community to understand the following:
When you...
...try to financially ruin private people with lawsuits (e.g. Cormack)
...come out as Satoshi in such a way as to create maximal doubt as to whether you are an impostor or not
...threaten to destroy other coins through a hash war, "bleed them" and shut down any activity for two years
...threaten to destroy the ecosystem of other chains through patents
...make very dubious legal claims, such as a legal right to be listed, or the idea that the whitepaper was some kind of contract
...consistently exhibit the most egregious social behavior on Twitter until you get banned
...routinely call others "morons" on social media
...draw guns during interviews
then others will start opposing you. They will oppose you more than they oppose outright scam coins. Basic human decency is not optional.
When you behave so obnoxiously that exchanges need to guard their reputation by dissociating themselves from you, then you reap the consequences of your actions with that.
To this day, Coinbase does not list BSV. This is egregious. How can this be? Is this because Coinbase is making a mistake, or is it because BSV has so thoroughly damaged its reputation?
BU should support BSV with all their hearts, but they dropped it. Peter Rizun is more closely aligned with BSV than BCH, but he can't support BSV at this time. Exchanges delist. Even ShapeShift delisted although the CEO is dedicated to a cryptocurrency and multicoin future.
The fact is that the advancement of BSV was damaged needlessly. This damage will be overcome. But let's not pretend it's someone else's fault. Let's also not pretend that these delistings etc. were somehow a good thing.
The BSV community needs to put a stop to this behavior by speaking out against it. Tolerating this is what makes us seem like a cult, and alas there is some truth to this. We should not be a cult. We should be a rational, goal-oriented group of people. The behaviors that I listed above hurt us all, no matter what is our place in the BSV space.
79b79aa8
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2015
- 1,031
- 3,440
@trinoxol i agree with many of your sentiments. the point though is that either the crypto "industry" continues fixated on trading tokens, or it matures by providing services that seep into general activity and transform society. the latter does not happen through being listed on coinbase or traded on shapeshift, this is the wrong target.
haha, I think you may be right, I assumed it was the regular old cypherdoc cynicism ;p
79b79aa8
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2015
- 1,031
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there is presently a transaction lull in BSV, some systems seem to be off . . . will it be followed by an explosion post-fork? 1MM txs/day would be a nice next stop. (that's a mere 12 tps, the STN is regularly handling one if not two orders of magnitude above that and recently mined a 5M txn, 10.7 bsv block. sha256 miners take note.)
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Christoph Bergmann
Active Member
It is required. You don't transform society with a digital currency if it is hard to buy and if price finding is broken because the major spots for arbitrage trading don't list it.
On bitcoin.de the trading volume fell below that of bitcoin gold after the delisting because all the arbitrage bots relied on kraken and binance. The easiest way to do Euro arbitrage is to trage against eur on Bitcoin.de, trade against btc on bittrex or finex, and trade btc against eur on kraken. Three trades instead of two, more fees, more volatility risks.
[doublepost=1580745933][/doublepost]Beside this... The more I think about the more I agree with the lawsuit. Abc DID collaborate with exchanges to steal a ticker symbol and to make a controversial hardfork a permanent split which made prices to down. Nobody cried foul because such is the way crypto uses to work, and people think developers are outside of the law. Now everybody cries foul because some entity uses the law against them.
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