Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Zarathustra

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Aug 28, 2015
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There is a word for this strategy.
Competition. It's capitalism, stupid. nChain (Bitcoin company) competes with MasterCard, the JPMorg and the GoldmanSacks (banking industry). ABC doesn't; they leave the business to the banks. There is a word for this strategy.
[doublepost=1554117322][/doublepost]> @Otaci, why doesn't nChain hire some FTE devs to contribute to BU?

Then the freetraders would be the first ones to cry foul and demand to ostracize those BU devs who collaborate with the devil. They can do what they want. Wright is always wrong.
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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False.

BCH no longer preserves the necessary causal ordering within blocks and as such is no longer Bitcoin as clearly defined in the WP.

Furthermore, it's dificulty to create a timeline of the transaction history at scale.

How does an enterprise generate the timeline of accounts paid and received at scale? Let block size = 10 TB and imagine the company does 1,000's of transactions every 10 minutes.

What's the algorithm to produce the timeline history of transactions? How does one know there is no mistake or buggy software that produced a corrupted timeline?
OK, wait a minute. I think I am only now beginning to grasp what you're trying to say. Tbh, reading your pedantic posts have made my eyes glaze over to a degree and maybe my heretofore neutral stance on CTOR was misguided :)

so explain this to someone who perhaps never fully understood the practical significance between CTOR and TTOR. from the sounds of your claim, the raw tx data that comprises/backs the txid's has no timestamp of its own? somehow I thought they did (sorry on my phone otherwise id look it up) . if not (as I think of it I don't think they do) , I guess I never really thought of the implications of that *at scale* as in your example for a large company. of course it matters that an accounting firm be able to unpack a CTOR block and reassemble a particular companies tens of thousands of tx's in the order they arrived to the mempool of the particular miner that solved the block. the tx ordering, even if it merely involves the relative time of arrival to the mempool is highly valuable information, which is preserved in TTOR. that could have tremendous legal and financial implications. accounting and legal systems cannot rely on such "poor" interblock 10min timestamp resolution that CTOR causes. sure, the arrival of tx's to a particular miners mempool could be manipulated but what institution doing that kind of business is going to bother or even be able technically to do that? I'm sure I never thought of this because of the heretofore pitifully small number of tx's per block in Bitcoin today. i apologize to guys like @awemany and @tomzander who were warning of the loss of ordering information from CTOR from the beginning.

do I have this right?
 
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freetrader

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Then the freetraders would be the first ones to cry foul and demand to ostracize those BU devs who collaborate with the devil.
That's where you are wrong, @Zarathustra. I believe in competition, even coopetition...

If nChain were hiring their own devs to take the BU source code and twiddle with it, I would have absolutely nothing against it - I couldn't !!!
Even better if they took some of that and contributed something back to BU. That would be splendid.

But what I'm seeing here is nChain trying to leech off BU dev & testing resources, while SV supporters like @digitsu are threatening future infringement lawsuits. As a BU member I strongly do not support this.

I'm even supportive of BU participating on STN as long as they get indemnity against the next frivolous lawsuit. I can't tell anyone what to do, but I wouldn't be doing it without legal safety net. There is too much bad blood between nChain leadership and BU leadership.

Even if nChain weren't going to use this STN participation as bait for some lawsuit, my personal opinion is that they would exploit it either for black PR against BU ("look how BU can't compete with our own solutions") or use it to further drive a wedge between BU's support for BCH and that of BSV ("BU can only realize its potential on BSV-net because muh bigger blocks"). Call me cynical.
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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Now is time for the BU membership to show their colors.
no its not. stop trying to stir up trouble for BU devs and members.

BU is on the brink of irrelevancy because of its association with ABC and the long list of unappreciation that has gone with that. not to mention your attempts to divide/neuter BU via total membership reset.
 
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Zarathustra

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> That's where you are wrong, @Zarathustra. I believe in competition, even coopetition...

But it seems that you don't believe in patent competition. Patent law is a reality in capitalism. Switzerland, perhaps the most successful economy on the planet, believes in patent competition and has the highest per capita patent rate. Venezuela on the other hand ...
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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@freetrader

>while SV supporters like @digitsu are threatening future infringement lawsuits.

furchrissakes, would you just stop with this type of inflammatory and defamatory language? all he did was pose a hypothetical. yet you phrase it like he directly is threatening BU with a patent lawsuit. you do this to me all the time, like when I sarcastically asked Silverblood about banning BU members who voted against CTOR on reddit and again here when I sarcastically proposed hating on GCBU, not BU, to which you somehow twisted into me wanting to shutdown this thread. what's wrong with you?
 
BU leadership has spoken out clearly against this frivolous suit.

Now is time for the BU membership to show their colors.
For what it's worth - I already told you that I don't think this lawsuit is appropriate, because I don't think the claims are valid. If they raise it despite knowing their claims are invalid - I don't know, but might be - they might abuse the law to bully ABC.

However, I will not "reject and condemn" the lawsuit, like, say, terrorist attacks.

If it ever happens that open source cryptocurrency developers conspire with exchanges by secretly delivering software with the intent to change the features of the underlying asset of a certain ticker symbol in a controversal, unwanted way - then I want them to be legally responsible for any damage which is caused by this to investors.

Do you agree, freetrader? Will you "reject and condemn" such kind of actions?

Also, if it is true that ABC lead dictator fired Shammah, after him receiving a law letter, instead of supporting him, like @solex supposes - do you "reject and condemn" this?
 

freetrader

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Also, if it is true that ABC lead dictator fired Shammah, after him receiving a law letter, instead of supporting him, like @solex supposes - do you "reject and condemn" this?
From my personal first-hand information from @micropresident , I have some reason to believe that this narrative is false. Of course, that's all still hearsay - I wasn't around as a witness when the decision was taken to ban him from ABC slack. But Shammah's word to me is that he resigned from ABC of his own accord. And I am inclined to believe that.

I feel that BU leadership might have missed the opportunity to get his side of the story before publishing their piece.
 

freetrader

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If it ever happens that open source cryptocurrency developers conspire with exchanges by secretly delivering software with the intent to change the features of the underlying asset of a certain ticker symbol in a controversal, unwanted way - then I want them to be legally responsible for any damage which is caused by this to investors.

Do you agree, freetrader? Will you "reject and condemn" such kind of actions?
I don't believe they secretly delivered software with the "intent to change the features of the underlying asset of a certain ticker symbol". BCH is still BCH, its most important features fortunately intact.

The rolling checkpoints were a safety against the publicly declared threat to deeply re-org the chain.
They can be removed from clients that have them, without any impact on the chain, once the threat has dissipated.

I reject you calling the actions of exchanges to protect themselves against such a threat a conspiracy.

I also reject your claim of "secretly". Developers from various BCH clients was deliberating publicly on measures to counter the threats declared against BCH. The issue was public in the media before the split.

Finally, everything is "controversial" in Bitcoin. We learned that during many years of good faith proposals to increase the block size limit on BTC.

When there are people who want something, and others who don't, then there is either reconciliation or a split. "There will be no split!" sounds like a deception when someone releases a client with obvious hard-forking code changes.
[doublepost=1554121379][/doublepost]
Would you reject and condemn it if it turns out true?
I would condemn anyone for banning a member of their development teams simply because such a member had received notice of what on the face is a frivolous, intimidatory lawsuit.

But in ABCs case, like I said, I have good evidence to believe that's not what happened at all, so I dismiss that, and think your hypothetical is completely unnecessary.
[doublepost=1554121431][/doublepost]@cypherdoc I believe @digitsu can speak for himself :rolleyes:
 

Norway

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Sep 29, 2015
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@freetrader

>while SV supporters like @digitsu are threatening future infringement lawsuits.

furchrissakes, would you just stop with this type of inflammatory and defamatory language? all he did was pose a hypothetical. yet you phrase it like he directly is threatening BU with a patent lawsuit. you do this to me all the time, like when I sarcastically asked Silverblood about banning BU members who voted against CTOR on reddit and again here when I sarcastically proposed hating on GCBU, not BU, to which you somehow twisted into me wanting to shutdown this thread. what's wrong with you?
He also twisted my appeal to members to be more conservative when electing new anonymous BU members into excluding existing anonymous BU members. He comes up with these lies all the time to disrupt and divide.
[doublepost=1554122194][/doublepost]I'm surprised people are fighting and not celebrating that BSV mooned past $1000 USD the last three hours.
 
I don't believe they secretly delivered software with the "intent to change the features of the underlying asset of a certain ticker symbol". BCH is still BCH, its most important features fortunately intact.

The rolling checkpoints were a safety against the publicly declared threat to deeply re-org the chain.
They can be removed from clients that have them, without any impact on the chain, once the threat has dissipated.

I reject you calling the actions of exchanges to protect themselves against such a threat a conspiracy.

I also reject your claim of "secretly". Developers from various BCH clients was deliberating publicly on measures to counter the threats declared against BCH. The issue was public in the media before the split.

Finally, everything is "controversial" in Bitcoin. We learned that during many years of good faith proposals to increase the block size limit on BTC.

When there are people who want something, and others who don't, then there is either reconciliation or a split. "There will be no split!" sounds like a deception when someone releases a client with obvious hard-forking code changes.
[doublepost=1554121379][/doublepost]
I would condemn anyone for banning a member of their development teams simply because such a member had received notice of what on the face is a frivolous, intimidatory lawsuit.

But in ABCs case, like I said, I have good evidence to believe that's not what happened at all, so I dismiss that, and think your hypothetical is completely unnecessary.
[doublepost=1554121431][/doublepost]@cypherdoc I believe @digitsu can speak for himself :rolleyes:
Nice to see you agreeing with me: We both think the lawsuit is not appropriate in this case, but that it might be in general, as a way to take open source developers responsible for a certain kind of action.
[doublepost=1554122552][/doublepost]
But in ABCs case, like I said, I have good evidence to believe that's not what happened at all, so I dismiss that, and think your hypothetical is completely unnecessary.
Will you share your evidence, or do we just have to trust your word that you have a hearsay?

Also, happy that we agree again, that it must be rejected and condemned if true.
 
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Zarathustra

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Aug 28, 2015
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He also twisted my appeal to members to be more conservative when electing new anonymous BU members into excluding existing anonymous BU members.
He also twisted @Otaci's invitation to the BU team into "But what I'm seeing here is nChain trying to leech off BU dev & testing resource..."

Those leeches! Freeloaders! Vampires, bloodsuckers, parasites!
 

freetrader

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Will you share your evidence, or do we just have to trust your word that you have a hearsay?
It is up to @micropresident to release those statements, they were made within private chat and my default position is to not release such unless the party involved was making a misleading claim w.r.t. the topic of said conversation.

But from what I hear Jonald Fyookball say, he mentioned same things to others, so that means he has ample evidence to back up his claim against the unfounded speculation.
[doublepost=1554126393][/doublepost]
He also twisted my appeal to members to be more conservative when electing new anonymous BU members into excluding existing anonymous BU members. He comes up with these lies all the time to disrupt and divide.
Please link to my "twisting" of your appeal, Norway.
 
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Norway

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Sep 29, 2015
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If you want BU to exclude anonymous members then you'll have to get a BUIP passed to amend the Articles.


I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you that the Articles don't cater for your seeming desire to exclude pseudonymous members.

You do like to abide by the rules, don't you?
 

freetrader

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I don't see how that's "twisted" given your appeal:
I think we should refuse to accept anonymous people / monikers as new members of Bitcoin Unlimited unless they can prove an extremely impressive online appearance for many years (3+).

...

If bitcoin is going for global, BU can't be a club based on anonymous members. The elected officers in BU are open with their identities. And so am I.
Those things are not in alignment with the current Articles. Which is why I suggest you should open a BUIP if you want BU to function other than it does.
 
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