Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Peter R

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
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5,595
At the helm of BSV we have a duo whose strategy has been based on lying, threatening, extorting, abusing patents and flirting with the state in order to get their way, among other attitudes more typical of a mafia than of an entity devoted to separation between money and state. In the absence of good ideas, the megalomaniac personality is usually inclined to impose bad ideas (hence their approval of the monopoly of force, positive law, "intellectual property", etc), and bad ideas, once put into practice, have the habit of causing bad consequences. I doubt that the Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre experiment will be the exception.

But the main problem of BSV is not the unscrupulousness or the ideological derailment of its leaders. In the germ of this project we can already find the most costly mistake an entrepreneur can make in Cryptoland: splitting up to start from scratch whenever a trivial difference of opinion arises.

For a fork to make sense and have potential, the dominant crypto-oligarchy must have made monumental mistakes, such as shooing hundreds of thousands of users and boasting about it. Otherwise, we will have a frivolous fork, that is to say a fork that the market considers unjustified, and so it will tend to widen the gap between the prices of the resulting coins until the loser remains in an irreversible vegetative state.

Someone could object that there is no objective method that allows us to determine if a particular fork is frivolous, except in retrospect, and therefore "Majamalu's law" actually have zero predictive value. Well, I will add the following to specify what I mean when I speak of a "frivolous fork": it is reasonable to assume that, in general, if you don't understand the reasons for the split, you are facing a frivolous fork, or maybe one that is motivated by inadmissible reasons. Otherwise, the fork may be necessary, if not indispensable.

There is no more conspicuous example of an indispensable fork than the one that gave rise to BCH on August 1, 2017. Anyone capable of tying their shoelaces is also able to understand that a $ 50 fee for a transaction that could be confirmed in the next 10 minutes or in the next two weeks, or never, is enough reason to justify a fork.

But if we already have a functional and scalable coin, there's no better way to delay its adoption and, consequently, to hinder the development of the network effect, than to divide us into ever smaller tribes clashing over increasingly insignificant issues. A cryptocurrency doesn't have to be perfect in order to keep gaining users; it does not have to be an imperturbable store of value right now, or a superplatform on which it is possible to build every conceivable application, nor can it be such things without first having a broad and solid userbase. It does have to continue to function normally, bothering as little as possible those who need it. That's all.

The day will come when all the applications that are languishing today due to lack of users, scattered in a thousand isolated protocols, in addition to all those that have not yet been conceived, will be implemented in the winning chain. Meanwhile, focusing on anything other than adoption motivated by the monetary qualities of BCH proves that we have not understood the crucial importance of the network effect.

The winning chain will simply be the most used chain. And the most used chain will be the most economical, efficient, reliable, predictable, friendly and, above all, the most respectful of the inherited infrastructure and the existing user base. It will also end up being, by virtue of the incentive system created by Satoshi Nakamoto, the safest chain.

Many bitcoiners have been seduced by one or another reductionist view of the problems faced by any pretender to the throne of universal money. They believe they have embraced an all-encompassing theory, when the truth is they just placed themselves at an extreme where they can comfortably rejoice, along with other members of their tribe, in the collective illusion that they already have all the answers, so they don't need to reflect on of their past decisions, or consider alternative solutions, or negotiate with "those outside." I hope there's a special place in hell for them.

Just quoting this post because it is so good!
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
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@Peter R
I love how you display LN's shortcomings with nice, simple examples and good graphics supporting your point.

To me, this proves that you are intelligent. An intelligent person invents the right example that people can understand. Einstein had this pedagogical quality too.

And @theZerg. You convinced me that your OP code would open a new world where oracles could release data to the public, and other people could use that info to "bump" their phones and engage in bets.

I'm very disappointed Zerg. Very very disappointed. Because I did my homework later. I checked the facts. And I figuered out that this was actually possible to do the oracle thing with the current script.

I proved it. I showed the code. And my friend Dagur even coded a very compact and easy-to.read version in Spendl of this.

What's the response? Just silence. Just fucking arrogance and fear from admitting that your proposal was wrong.

Back to Peter. You say Craig Wright is a plagiarist. Explain these inventions:
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/sea...bmitted=true&DB=&query=Craig+Wright+or+nchain

You must be crazy to call an inventor at this scale a plagiarist, Peter. He invented the bitcoin you care about.

And I'm not impressed by @solex either. He is a very cool man, but I suspect he got the same brain virus.

@Peter R @theZerg @solex:

You all have this virus in your brain:


 
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Norway

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Sep 29, 2015
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I might be rough around the edges. But I'm very intelligent.

Only a very intelligent person can boil down the real world difference between LTOR and Satoshi's intentional design of record keeping into a character limited tweet:

 
I'd like to pick up the idea @cypherdoc put forward. That @freetrader might be a mole.

I have travelled the world and met most people in BU. I haven't met the inventor of Xthin, but I know his name and would like to meet him one day after the dust settles.

Have anybody here seen the face of @freetrader ever?

I don't think so.
It was inevitable for a long time that most of us will not go through without a touch of madness. The internet is mad, bitcoin is madder than the internet, and being in constant opposition to the ruling narrative makes just more madness.

I proud myself to kept a cool mind, thanks to my duty to stay in sensible touch with the wider crypto community. But honestly... I had similar thoughts about freetrader, he's acting like from a playbook since november
[doublepost=1553906380][/doublepost]With that I mean: I could have predicted every single post from him in this thread.
 
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Peter R

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,398
5,595
With all the deep respect I have for you... This was disappointing.

BU is attacked right and left from ABC, and what do you do? Promote a diffamation post against bsv.

@solex and @theZerg take position against what's going on. Thank you.
I'm surprised to hear you say this. I interpreted this post as "the split was stupid and it would have been better to have stuck together." How to you see @majamalu's post as anti-BSV? To me it was a call for unity. ABC is just as guilty as BSV of precipitating the split.
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
@Peter R , you never answered. Should I follow your advice and quit BU because I'm impressed by CSW?

If you want me to quit, you should have the balls to tell it to my face.

If you don't respond, you're a passive-agressive pussy in my book.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,998
It was inevitable for a long time that most of us will not go through without a touch of madness. The internet is mad, bitcoin is madder than the internet, and being in constant opposition to the ruling narrative makes just more madness.

I proud myself to kept a cool mind, thanks to my duty to stay in sensible touch with the wider crypto community. But honestly... I had similar thoughts about freetrader, he's acting like from a playbook since november
[doublepost=1553906380][/doublepost]With that I mean: I could have predicted every single post from him in this thread.
it's not like forum infiltration is unheard of. like i said before, just look how deep and connected Carl Force Mark & Shaun Bridges got into SR while gaining the trust of Ross. they became admins furchissake (mods). it reads like a Hollywood novel; amazing absolutely amazing story. and look at all the damage and criminality they inflicted while inside. we also know from Cointelpro tactics that infiltration is a main tool with divide and conquer as a major strategic goal directed at enemy communities. well, we got that in spades.
[doublepost=1553907600][/doublepost]
But honestly... I had similar thoughts about freetrader, he's acting like from a playbook since november
you gotta ask yourself, why would u/ftrader suddenly resurface after all these years onto r/btc to help spearhead the BUIP's written by @Griffith which called for a total BU membership reset that ostracizes non-devs? are you fricking kidding me? that's crazy stuff. saboteur-like.

and now he's talking like a Core supporter; "muh full node" and "BU devs only".
[doublepost=1553908306,1553907347][/doublepost]just look at these megablocks! anyone who tries to deny the significance of this is just plain obstructive. this steady stream of record blocks is a proof of concept that disproves anything and everything Core and ABC says about the importance of small blocks (yep, 32MB limit is small thinking). furthermore, again look at the pre and post block intervals; no propagation or validation issue. i was reading BSV threads earlier today that explains why this is not happening. apparently BSV is using a form of parallelization in processing along with probable Teranode-like hardward btwn miners. so this isn't a hoax or some type of manipulation. this is all happening on mainnet. the pessimists got some explaining to do.
[doublepost=1553908338][/doublepost]

[doublepost=1553908416][/doublepost]128MB block; yawn

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-sv/block/575838
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
@cypherdoc
Yeah. The level for being infiltrated is very low, from my experience.

The budgets for financing infiltrators have always been there.

Small political communities (like "Free palestine" in the eightees in norway) were infiltrated by full time paid men pretending they were onboard.

From arranging Oslo Bitcoin Meetup for many years, I have seen these spies come and go. Had a funny episode when I invited the police for a talk.

The cop gave his talk from the small stage. After his talk, he came down, grabbed a beer and recognized a buddy he knew. The problem was: The buddy was undercover, spying on these criminal bitcoin dudes, lol!
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
And, yeah. We have these chinese guys popping up at the meetups. Just spending time, reporting "nothing happened" to their superiors and going along, lol.
[doublepost=1553909338][/doublepost]Hey @imaginary_username !
What's a split? What the hell are you talking about?
[doublepost=1553909632][/doublepost]You are one of these anonymous monikers that have become a voting member in BU.

What do you think about ignoring anonymous people from becoming BU members? Isn't that a great idea to protect the organization from sybils?
 
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rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
586
2,284
@Richy_T Thank you for taking that thread up, you are more patient than I am.

But if we already have a functional and scalable coin, there's no better way to delay its adoption and, consequently, to hinder the development of the network effect, than to divide us into ever smaller tribes clashing over increasingly insignificant issues. ....
The day will come when all the applications that are languishing today due to lack of users, scattered in a thousand isolated protocols
I'd rather see a thousand options and different block chains today, than having zero choice and being forced on one broken option (as long as they are truly different and not litecoin type copies). A larger number of truly different block chains today increases the odds of someone finding an amazing use case that drives usage onto a block chain and having that take over. As far as I am concerned no chain has make any progress on being used so nothing is being lost from the forks, the only purpose Bitcoin has found so far is speculation, which isn't a sustainable use case on it's own.

I got into Bitcoin because I want sound money back and want to see the central banking cartel broken. That is priority #1. Would I prefer that a Bitcoin based chain does this, sure because I have a stake in it. But if another chain I do not own succeeds I would still consider it a win. BitcoinCore is not breaking the central bank cartel, nor is a chain that forks every 6 months.

Looks as if Amaurys political purge is working and that he has won his little war inside BCH.. All critics left or are exhausted.

BCH-ABC has chosen to take the same path as Bitcoin core... Commenting on /r/btc feels like the blocksize-debate times on /r/bitcoin before the massive censorship.. Everything is there again. The history rewriting, the blatant lying, the "there is only one way" thinking, the developer-bootlicking.. And astonishing how fast the "BU == bad" spin was successful.
100% agree, /r/btc is really shocking because of how open it claimed to be.

its inevitable. with any degree of success, the q6mo hard fork schedule is susceptible to disagreements/forking not just from inside but way more likely from outsiders pretending to be insiders. IOW, saboteurs.
On the other hand, now that Amaury has kicked everyone out who might disagree it's not clear where dispute will come from. BCH is now Amaury Coin and it will follow whatever he does.

@Peter R
I love how you display LN's shortcomings with nice, simple examples and good graphics supporting your point.
Agree they are great examples, but the time for this was 4 years ago when the debate was if LN was good enough to bet Bitcoin's future on. That battle was lost to core. Core is going to continue with LN as Bitcoin's future no matter what anyone else does, so let them.

IMHO today it is more effective to focus on promoting use cases on the better chains, than continuing to highlight the problems core has. The problems will be discovered eventually as people use LN.
 
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majamalu

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
144
775
Oh, look, really? Why do I hear this only 1000 times a week?
Maybe that wouldn't bother you so much if it wasn't true.

Full agree. This was why I begged ABC proponents to delay CTOR. Not once, but often, and not only me, but many, including every single non-ABC-developer. Confronted with SV's fork program, ABC had the chance to stop / delay the fork, just by not implementing CTOR, giving the miners the chance to mine compatible blocks. But they did not do, and like many of them confirmed, they WANTED the split. It was no option for them to not activate the hard fork features, even when the price was the fork.
Craig would have found any other excuse. You think it is possible to appease him because you have chosen not to pay attention to his words. IMO, it's too high a price to pay just to lower your anxiety levels in the short term.
[doublepost=1553916504][/doublepost]
@majamalu, that is such a great post that stands on its own. Consider putting it on Honest.cash.
Thank you! Will do.
[doublepost=1553917485,1553916438][/doublepost]
do you agree that change was forced by ABC? one might learn to live with it, but the deeper problem is that BCH is subject to such changes being imposed again, disrupting business, development and use. like BTC, it is at the mercy of developers with too much power. power corrupts. bad decisions result.
Core's strategy will not work again, but you have been so traumatized by past battles that you are fighting an enemy that doesn't exist today, while embracing your true enemy. What guarantee does BSV offer you that they will "lock down the protocol", even if that makes any sense? Craig's word?
 
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Richy_T

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2015
1,085
2,741
You must have missed Deadalnix's famous "investors win" quote.
He was clearly under the impression that the split will end with a financial win for investors.
People will often put a kindly spin on decisions made for less defensible reasons.
[doublepost=1553923068][/doublepost]
I might be rough around the edges. But I'm very intelligent.

Only a very intelligent person can boil down the real world difference between LTOR and Satoshi's intentional design of record keeping into a character limited tweet:

What if the repayment transaction makes it to a miner before the original payment transaction?
[doublepost=1553923582,1553922618][/doublepost]Hold on a sec...

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Miner_fees

Then transactions that pay a fee of at least 0.00001 BTC/kb are added to the block, highest-fee-per-kilobyte transactions first, until the block is not more than 750,000 bytes big.
Now, that is quite clearly out of date but that reads to me that transactions are added into blocks in fee order, not any kind of chronological order (except for dependent transactions, of course). Is the site wrong? (It wouldn't be the first time).
 
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sken

New Member
Nov 22, 2017
24
20
@Peter R , you never answered. Should I follow your advice and quit BU because I'm impressed by CSW?

If you want me to quit, you should have the balls to tell it to my face.

If you don't respond, you're a passive-agressive pussy in my book.
The only pussy here is yourself for not leaving BU.
 
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