Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

This mindset is why we're not making KaChing for the BCH chain. It would break our business.

Good point. AFAIK it is not planned to do it the way I proposed, but yes, good point.

As a journalist I hate videos. Much more work to get and quote the relevant parts. It's an escape from public discussion.

I can't agree more.

 

[Norway]

Interesting, but my prediction is that nothing much about anyone's view is going to change based on any new information.

Investment weighted cognitive dissonance is very real.

Look at how many people cannot accept substitute goods will prevent a reliable and 'successful' BTC fee market, because they hold BTC.

If you despise patents or love emin you will just move on to the next set of arguments that seem convincing.

Yes, the most entrenched will just add another layer to their tinfoil hat.
But but it could have an impact on normal people/businesses.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

It's crazy. Mental proof of work with wallet based asicboost.

This destructive mechanism is everywhere, but in crypto we're living it in its most naked manifestation.

 

[cypherdoc]

the markets are moving hard

bottom in? i'd bet on it...

 

[solex]

@cypherdoc it does look promising that we will see an uptrend. How the big block forks perform relative to BTC will indicate how well the onchain-scaling cause will rebuild.

@Norway,
Is this relevant to your bet?

 

[cypherdoc]

@solex do you have a link to the Aug 2008 draft?

 

[Norway]

@solex
I don't have a bet. Maybe you are thinking about @go1111111 's bet about what will happen in the Ira Kleiman vs CSW case?

Anyway, do you see the logical flaw in WikiLeaks' arguments?

 

[cypherdoc]

"In a small-world network, there is no place for a non-mining Sybil node. You cannot jump between nodes and intersect and inject blocks quicker than other nodes as you are always reacting as a selfish miner."

https://medium.com/@craig_10243/the-great-mining-swindle-2dec8ffa819d

Emin admitted the need for a Sybil node when I spoke to him directly about SM back in 2014.

 

[go1111111]

believe it or not, your bet offer IS too small of an amount for me to bother betting someone i don't know over the internet where all sorts of things can go wrong over a time period i'm not willing to accept.

Suppose there was something else about the CSW trial where you thought the probability of it happening was 80%, and suppose we made a conditional bet so that if the trial didn't reach its conclusion the bet was canceled. What would you be worried about "going wrong" in that case? Suppose I also increased the amount of the bet so that it was worth it for you.

you're just offering a bet that nobody cares about and from people who are indeed prudent non gamblers.

There should be no such thing as a "bet that no one cares about" if the odds are in your favor and the stakes are worth it, because the outcome of the bet is that you get money if you win and pretty much everyone prefers having more money. The topic of the bet being "interesting" is irrelevant.

If I offer to bet you some amount of money that when I roll a fair 20 sided dice the result will be 6, it doesn't matter that the result of a die roll is completely uninteresting. What matters is your confidence in the odds and the bet amount. No rational person would say they're "too prudent" to take that bet, or object that they're "not a gambler." Claims of "I don't gamble" are generally excuses for lack of confidence.

like i said, you'd think you'd be a bit more humble after looking like a fool trying to sell/bet a bunch of BSV at the bottom around 35 (7:1 ratio). how's that working out?

Even the most rational person who makes a lot of bets will sometimes be wrong. If you get 55% odds on something and aren't too risk averse, you should take it. 45% of the time you'll be wrong. That doesn't mean you're a "fool." You seem have a mindset where you think people should be so insecure about being wrong that they should never take a risk unless they're completely certain. If you think like that you're leaving money on the table.

i'll buy 10000 BSV from you right now for 5000 BCH. don't give me an excuse that you don't have this amount since you can easily go out and get the BSV so as to "make easy money" right? i mean, why wouldn't you do it since it's "free money", right?

I never said that someone not having a certain amount of money wasn't a valid reason not to bet that amount. If you read my offer, I said I'd be willing to bet "up to" the amount I gave. I'm happy to bet $5 on the bet I offered. If someone doesn't have a lot of money that's totally cool.

If you're willing to do an exchange at the rate you quoted for any amount, just like I offered to bet any amount below a certain amount, and if you're willing to give me a better rate than I can get on an exchange, then I'll happily take your offer. How does that sound? Let's say I wanted to trade 150 BSV to you -- what sort of discounted rate would you give me? I'd need to calculate the slippage and fees on the exchanges to make sure it's worth it.

If you're game we'll want to figure out how to do a cross chain atomic swap so this is trustless.

Since your offer doesn't require me to hold BCH, and doesn't require me to take a position on BSV for more than several hours, all your offer really accomplishes is to check whether I have a certain amount of liquid assets by offering me a small arbitrage opportunity if I do. If it makes you feel good to know that you have more liquid assets than me that's fine, but note that this isn't at all analogous to my bet offer since I've always been happy to bet as little as the other person wants to bet.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

BTW, I discovered an ugly bug in lightning.

1. Rent / have 30 percent of the hashrate
2. Open n lightning channels
3. Once settled, transfer coins to your other n ln nodes
4. Double spend the opening transcations

You have an easy, cheap, risk less, scalable way to steal the funds in other channels, and you can try it as often as you want.

 

[Manfred]

Thousand and thousands of coins exit, in a few years time how many will still be p2p and true deflationary like whitepaper protocol. BSV and ???

 

[Manfred]

In this series of interviews in 10 July 2014, 1.5 years before his outing, he lays out his clear and longstanding vision of bitcoin, one which he's fighting for now.
"We"
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

 

[bitsko]

ok then, is this where i firmly plant the BSV flag in this thread?

https://planaria.network

 

[79b79aa8]

. . . at the expense of the devs abandoning it . . .

propagandists come and go. the thread is about bitcoin. whatever that is or will be.

ah! also about gold. if only bitcoin had an atomic weight, that would save everyone a lot of effort.

except not one of us expected creating a new form of money ex nihilo would be simple. and it ain't.

 

[go1111111]

you nor i, haven't ever before constructed a bet via an atomic swap which adds a layer of risk and complexity i won't accept for the sums i'm talking about

The bet that I offered didn't require any atomic swaps, just plain 2 of 3 multisig. So your excuse that you rejected my bet because of atomic swap complexity makes no sense.

It was only your offer that required atomic swaps to be trustless.

what makes you think you are the one on this side of the bet that deserves a discount? i'm offering a straight up neutral trade based on the Coinex rate. and like i said, we'll do the trade face to face for security. seems to me you're making unreasonable restrictions based on a lack of confidence.

I figured you were offering a discount because at the time i checked prices, your offer would give me a bit of a discount. And because offering to trade at the market rate makes no sense because either of us can do that without the other's help.

You don't seem to understand that offering me a pure trade can't accomplish what you want it to accomplish: you can't know that I would have otherwise held any BSV if not for the trade, and you can't know that I won't sell the BCH immediately after getting it from you.

whether you sell the BCH or not would be irrelevant as to who won this bet.

You're not offering a bet, you're offering a trade. I think you're intending to bet on the future price ratio of BSV and BCH, but what you're offering doesn't penalize me financially if BSV does better than BCH or vice versa.

why would you sell it when supposedly you're bullish on it?

I'm not that bullish on BCH these days. But even if I was, I would already have had the amount of BCH that I wanted. Your offer to sell me some at market rate doesn't give me any reason to change however much BCH I have.

this is a great way to unload your remaining BSV, which you infer is doomed for $0

What makes you think I have any BSV?

it seems i'm the only one here honestly looking to accumulate more of the coin i believe in: BSV.

If someone offers you a market rate trade and this compels you to adjust your crypto holdings it means you're doing something wrong, because accumulating more of the coin you want at the market rate has already been available to you.

Try coming up with an actual offer that actually makes me worse off and you better off if BSV does well, and vice versa if it doesn't.

 

[bitsko]

Not bullish on BCH eliot?

How about that AVA coin?

 

[Zarathustra]

Emin Gün Sirer is a liar, a fraud, or an idiot, or a piece of shit, or all of that combined.
Claims that it was the 'BSV community' that started by storing child pornography on the chain.

 

[bitsko]

Sad

 

[cypherdoc]

it's been 5y since that idiot published his SM paper and which I publicly disagreed with to his face. and not one real life example since. is academia that easy?

 

[go1111111]

yes, it's a trade; of the type you first offered in this thread several months ago, iirc.

I offered to trade on this forum because there weren't exchanges (that i was aware of) that supported such trades. So trading on this forum served a purpose back then.

well, i was just hoping you'd welcome a chance to prove your confidence in BCH while also proving me wrong if the ratio went against me longer term. apparently you don't have much.

You're not addressing the point I've been making: why would I not already have the exact amount of BCH and BSV that I wanted, given current prices? And why would you offering to trade at current prices cause me to take any action?

This is like me being in a grocery store and buying the exact amount of apples I want and then you walking up to me and saying "I'll sell you 50 more apples at the same price that you just bought those apples for. Why won't you buy my apples?? I thought you liked apples? I'm giving you a chance to prove to everyone how much you like apples." If I wanted 50 more apples I would have bought them already.