Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Richy_T]

>

Looks like a good time to me. Certainly better than running round the jungle in a loin cloth full of parasites as you seem to yearn for.

 

[solex]

This is the first time BCH has breached 20% of aggregate Bitcoin SHA256 hashrate since the new DAA went live in November 2017. There is absolutely no doubt that Bitcoin Cash with layer-1 scaling is creeping up on Bitcoin Core with its layer-2 scaling model.

BTC and BCH relative hashrate [fork.lol] 8 May 2018

We have also seen the BCH price begin to decouple from BTC. This process is not complete, but needs to be, before an overtake can occur.

The main question now is whether BTC holders will be able to gracefully exit their holdings into BCH or alt-coins, or whether the 2-week difficulty adjustment will become a gin-trap, and they are locked into the chain-death scenario of a stalling coin where the 1MB limit and blocks hours apart make them spectators as their fortunes evaporate.

 

[cypherdoc]

BTC collapsing. BCH UP.

 

[Zarathustra]

@Zarathustra:

The most important freedom is the freedom to walk away.

That's the theory. The reality is: Grosso modo we've got choice between BS and HS. The homo oeconomicus depends on his interaction with the masses, with aliens and strangers. Why are you interacting with theymos, bashco, maxwell, samson, luke-jr and all those sick 'individualists' who make you and me sick? The nuclear communities have been self-sufficient. That self-sufficiency got lost with the invention of the society/civilization (=church and state).

Ayn Rand believes that man is an individualist who needs anonymity. I say, anonymity destroys the foundation of every community and society.
It leads to a situation in which not only are the core henchmen empowered to practice cyber terror. If everyone can spread all sorts of imaginable and unimaginable things with impunity, then the end of such a society has been reached long before.

Civilization is the maximization of violence.
Quantity and quality of organized and unorganized violence in civilization are unique.
Further technological progress will result in a minority acting anonymously and a majority under total surveillance.

Miraculous you call it babe
You ain't seen nothing yet ..

The human race has civilized itself
It's a miracle

 

[Zarathustra]

Looks like a good time to me. Certainly better than running round the jungle in a loin cloth full of parasites as you seem to yearn for.

Yes, I know, "you are all socialists" (statists). You want to be citizens, not humans anymore.
It's as if a pig would prefer to be a domestic pig. The nature is the parasite to you, not the nationalized man (=citizen)!
#Orwell. Everything is seen upside down.

There is only one economist/socionomist. Everything else is science fiction (schools of the state for statists):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Debitismus_Forum/comments/8hux1s/das_staatsproblem_ist_kein_lösbares/

The new idol has done a great job:

The state, I call it, where all are poison-drinkers, the good and the bad: the state, where all lose themselves, the good and the bad: the state, where the slow suicide of all—is called "life."

http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/11

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

TIL You are a socialist if you like to visit concerts!

 

[Zarathustra]

You are not socialists because you like to visit concerts. You are socialists because you accept being transformed into nationalized (sub-) humans (citizens). You are socialists because you fear natural things (fleas) more than unnatural ones (church and state).

 

[Richy_T]

Z, I'd like to know how you are managing to write comments to this board using a coconut. Also, internet access must be pretty hard to come by in the rainforest.
[doublepost=1525798509][/doublepost]Civilization, as any advancement, comes with negatives and positives. It is up to us to attempt to manage them. In the case of civilization, one negative is that it has allowed those who would rule to aggregate and consolidate their power by allowing better control of those who would be ruled (and hence those who prefer to be left alone). Every so often, at huge cost in blood and treasure, some progress is made on controlling and mitigating this. Now, hopefully, crypto will allow another step forward. With luck, bloodlessly (though there is no guarantee of that).

 

[awemany]

@Richy_T: Well said.

@Peter R., @AdrianX: I think you are both right. I guess it is quite easy to become (too ) cynical here.

 

[majamalu]

@awemany Indeed. This is what I thought after reading your last theory: "This guy is too technically competent for his own good."

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

You are not socialists because you like to visit concerts. You are socialists because you accept being transformed into nationalized (sub-) humans (citizens). You are socialists because you fear natural things (fleas) more than unnatural ones (church and state).

Nice quote. It goes back to the root of it, but also shows the (bad) choices between dying at 45 with wormed-rotten flesh, or accepting to collectivize action, which makes you a socialist in the end. I tend to think there is an alternative ... Thank you for this basic differentiation.

Something else ... about the new BU vote: Most things seem easy. I like the contractor's tasks, new members are high quality (Welcome Reina, Hello Micropresident, hope we don't fight). The only thing I refuse is the Cash nomination (it would be stupid to call a subunit of the Deutsche Mark "ein Deutscher"). I struggled with Double Spend Relay vs. Double Spend Fraud Proofs. In the end I voted for both, because imho Double Spend Relay helps a lot to fight some kind of Double Spend, and the ecosystem should learn to use it, while Double Spend Fraud Proofs could be even better, once developed and deployed. So I'm for both.

I used the voting system for the first time. Very nice! Does it automatically check signatures?

 

[awemany]

I used the voting system for the first time. Very nice! Does it automatically check signatures?

Thank you. I sure hope it does Any hints that it didn't? Please also notice the functionality to export a "paper trail" (at the bottom of the page) which you can check yourself for correct signatures and so forth.

 

[theZerg]

@cypherdoc there may be an effectively infinite amount of data that can be stored on the blockchain, but will it be stored? It's a terribly slow read and write medium with tiny chunk sizes, public visibility, nontrivial per MB cost and no guarantee that that cost won't rise dramatically because miners can economically differentiate the tx. OTOH, Plenty of free or very cheap cloud storage services exist.

Not counting the random individual experiment, Blockchain storage use will be used for short statements that benefit from the public, timestamped, ownership-proving/enforcing and associative nature of transactions.

 

[Tom Zander]

In my effort to make the Bitcoin codebase more mature, and most of all multi-threading, I got limited a for a long time by the UTXO. A central component that has issues with multi-threading and is a bottleneck for bigger blocks.

I finished a prototype implementation for a new UTXO database in the Flowee project which may be interesting to many in order to allow scale to real gigabyte blocks.

Please see my report I posted on yours; https://www.yours.org/content/19ff35ba5c94

 

[_bc]

no guarantee that that cost won't rise dramatically because miners can economically differentiate the tx. OTOH, Plenty of free or very cheap cloud storage services exist.

Not counting the random individual experiment, Blockchain storage use will be used for short statements that benefit from the public, timestamped, ownership-proving/enforcing and associative nature of transactions.

Agreed on the costs. Right now the flood gates are open. Very few people are using BCH (relatively). There's no shortage of block space, and the miners are incentivized to attract new users and uses. The novelty of memo and blockpress are being explored. Maybe a dReddit will follow. Maybe it's not important enough to happen. Maybe a dWikiLeaks will happen.

But at some point all of these applications may face higher costs - competing with direct commerce. We'll see if/when, and at what level. Until then, BCH is an enabler of rapid decentralized evolution. It will capture the imagination of anyone willing to listen - devs, entrepreneurs, users. Maybe some dApps, having been birthed on BCH, will find they're better-served on their own network, but that might not happen right away, nor all at once. Some dApps might have a higher tolerance for fees (dWikiLeaks), and stay with BCH longer. And as @theZerg mentioned, to the extent they can be readily-identified by miners, they could face discrimination (good and/or bad). Grocery store coupon-clippers are easily identified, and rewarded with lower prices. If miners perceive a particular (readily-identifed) dApp as beneficial, or otherwise-worthy, they might even be rewarded with *free* txs for a time.
[doublepost=1525875311,1525874266][/doublepost]From https://www.yours.org/content/bitcoin-cash--scaling-to-the-future--19ff35ba5c94

The realisation set in that the best way forward was to use my experience writing low-level software and my experience with Bitcoin to design a database specifically for the usecase of the unspent outputs database.
Unique features:

• an output is written to the DB only once ever.
• when an output is used, we delete the output.
• lookup is based on the sha256 hash (32 bytes in size) combined with an output-index integer.

And one observation that is actually very useful;

• it is Ok to lose your latest data as long as you have a 'checkpoint' where the data is consistent.

The most important part of the design is that we know for a fact that entries in our database never get changed. Only deleted.

This is great. We've gone from CPUs to GPUs to application-specific hardware. Now Tom is exploring application-specific DBs. Someone's going to find this useful.

 

[Zarathustra]

Z, I'd like to know how you are managing to write comments to this board using a coconut.

You actually seem to believe that this kind of communication makes people happy and those living in a natural environment are missing the artificial life of nationalized humans (tribute slaves). Amazing.

Also, internet access must be pretty hard to come by in the rainforest.

I know I know, progress ...

Civilization, as any advancement, comes with negatives and positives. It is up to us to attempt to manage them.

In other words: The mafia, a system of organized violence, as any advancement, comes with negatives and positives. It is up to us to attempt to manage them?

No no, Richy, that doesn't make sense. Nationalized humans are forced to pay protection money and you come with those old lame excuses 'comes with negatives and positives'?

Civilization means rise and fall; growing rampant until the next collapse. Always! Didn't you know?

Communism collapsed once. Civilization collapsed always. Over and over again, with endless wars until the end. How many times do you want to repeat a cycle that always has been doomed from the very beginning?

A civilized world is – since it always grows rampant until it collapses like cancer – the worst of all possible worlds. With Schopenhauer spoken: It is therefore as bad as it possibly can be if it is to continue to be at all. Q. E. D.

The ruins of lost civilizations are the records of worlds whose survival was no longer possible, and which consequently were slightly worse than the worst possible worlds.

 

[awemany]

In other words: The mafia, a system of organized violence, as any advancement, comes with negatives and positives. It is up to us to attempt to manage them?

I think it is quite shortsighted to equal civilization with the mafia. The government equaling a/the mafia, maybe.

Nationalized humans are forced to pay protection money and you come with those old lame excuses 'comes with negatives and positives'?

"I pay you to protect me from intruders" (division of labor) is not quite the same as "give me your money, or else" (threat of violence).

 

[AdrianX]

Ayn Rand believes that man is an individualist who needs anonymity.

I agree ignorant people living with total anonymous world would be terrible.

It's not the anonymity people want, It's what anonymity gives you that people want. People want to be free of judgment to act in their interests.

eg. If I pay for drugs online I want the freedom to do it in a mutually consenting environment.

That can be achieved by doing it anonymously or by doing it in an environment where I'm free to voluntarily exchange value without judgment. (it's the freedom people what the anonymity is just a tool to get it in an environment where that freedom does not exist)

It's judging other people and then taking discriminatory action that is the problem, Ayn Rand was saying we should be free to experience the consequences of our actions.
[doublepost=1525899708,1525899038][/doublepost]

@cypherdoc there may be an effectively infinite amount of data that can be stored on the blockchain, but will it be stored?

We didn't get a chance to discuss this in Japan, But @Mengerian made a compelling argument to let it happen. I see great value in securing property titles on the blockchain be it tokens or smart contracts.

It seems to be more about prioritizing, solving the biggest problems first. Money as I understand it is orders of magnitude more important in terms of priority. BU may be limited by bandwidth, the economy is not, so as long as we are inclusive, and keep our focus on the goal I think we win this.

Also, @Peter R that was a fantastic talk. Thanks! Your backstory intro was also very motivational, well done.

 

[AdrianX]

This is the first time BCH has breached 20% of aggregate Bitcoin SHA256 hashrate since the new DAA went live in November 2017. There is absolutely no doubt that Bitcoin Cash with layer-1 scaling is creeping up on Bitcoin Core with its layer-2 scaling model.

I have a random prediction based on a technology adoption cycle theory regarding the flipping. If BCH is above 0.135BTC and above 13.5% hashrate 128 days from now, the decoupling from BTC will be complete. (that represents 3.5% BCH issued since the fork a key trigger regarding adoption, coins in circulation and a tipping point in hashrate and price.)

Then 490 days from now it will be unstoppable. (490 days represents 13.5% BCH issued since the fork, 13.5% is known as the tipping point - Malcolm Gladwell, or having crossed the chasm - Geoffrey Moore.)

I still feel it's going to happen sooner and potentially very fast, those predictions are based on adoption cycle trends, new investors in BCH that grow adoption, changing the ownership distribution profile.

There is no correlation to BTC other than at this time ~99.5% of all coins in circulation today were issued to holders on August 1, 2017, so not much new economic energy injected into the network. 13% new coins going to new investors, is a shilling point in adoption coupled with and stable foundation relative to BTC = flip.

 

[Richy_T]

I think it is quite shortsighted to equal civilization with the mafia.

I think if you start from the precondition that civilization is bad, it becomes fairly straightforward to prove that civilization is bad.
[doublepost=1525938194,1525937477][/doublepost]

You actually seem to believe that this kind of communication makes people happy and those living in a natural environment are missing the artificial life of nationalized humans

Of course they are not missing it. They don't have access to the internet to read about it. Might as well ask a merchant slugging his wares across the Southdowns Way in 1400AD whether he misses being able to drive it in a motor car. On the other hand, I do have access to how his life is lived and can say from an informed position that I absolutely am not missing a minute of that.

Things are not perfect. But if I am handling hazardous chemicals and my gloves itch, I do not take them off to remove the itch and attain a more natural state of hazardous chemical handling. If that's your fetish, you're welcome to it.