Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[solex]

@Peter R
Very interesting to hear that mainstream perspective. It also shows how much twitter and reddit are echo chambers where we assume we are speaking to the world, but are really speaking to large room.

@Zolin "believe in your Bitcoin wallet" is vacuous, like a coreblocker "hodl" meme, or like believing in a pile of fiats with Chavez's smiling face on them.

You can believe in the staying power of mathematics, scientific progress, technology, resource limits, economic processes and incentive systems - all of which underpin the cryptocurrency paradigm. Then decide which crypto best utilises the above to fill your wallet.

 

[cypherdoc]

No. I'm asking to whom would a Starbucks-like merchant send on the customer coffee payments to within the LN, especially instantly?

@Mengerian

My beef is with the claim in the article that merchants can get their funds instantly, as opposed to waiting until the channel expires to do a closing TX to claim the BTC.

Sending the BTC instantly on to another LN participant doesn't seem likely because to whom would they be sending it? Other coffee buyers? That doesn't make sense. Suppliers? Unlikely because suppliers are more likely to have been paid in BTC or fiat since LN deals mainly in small payments. If suppliers are getting paid on LN, then are we arguing that LN is trying to close the loop on the economic cycle to the exclusion of onchain payments? How is that good for the main layer?

 

[Zarathustra]

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8h5xqg/amazing_analysis_of_the_fundamentals_by_a_chart/

"This is my most popular and controversial tweet till date. The core trolls went ballistic, if only they put money in place of their big mouths. Can't wait to hear from them when we reach 10K."

https://www.yours.org/content/bitcoin-cash---the-road-to-10k-technical-analysis-b90469fe647f

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

@Peter R
Looks like the engineers you talked to had deep pockets..

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

On a side note: Scary and weird to see how Karl Marx is being celebrated in Germany these days (200th birthday). The collapse of the Soviet Union isn't 30 years old yet, people are starving in Venezuela for everyone to see, and still, people celebrate the visionary for the enslavement of billions of people. Hammer and sickle is not an iota better than the Swastika.

 

[cypherdoc]

BTC collapsing. BCH UP.

 

[freetrader]

Lastly, I further convinced myself that many people, and even a lot of developers, do not understand how simplified payment verification (SPV) works. I went through it in detail in my presentation [...]

Peter, do you have a link to that presentation that you could share?

 

[cypherdoc]

You know, instead of BCH PLZ T shirts , they should have been BCH UP.

 

[Mengerian]

My beef is with the claim in the article that merchants can get their funds instantly, as opposed to waiting until the channel expires to do a closing TX to claim the BTC.

Yeah, I agree with you.

In the scenario they sketch out, seems they assume everyone will be using the lightning network: suppliers, exchanges, etc. But it unclear (to put it mildly) how well that would work in practice, and what the effect would be for the on-chain network.

 

[79b79aa8]

not even satoshi presupposed the bitcoin network would economically lift itself by its own bootstraps. that was before any money (especially other people's money) was at stake. i would not be surprised to watch many people wash their hands off of LN in due course.

 

[AdrianX]

Well, and now extrapolate your findings to the crypto John Doe. And I have the strong feeling that the average IQ in the "crypto scene" is lower than the average IQ of the rest of the population these days... "Muh decentralization muh Lambo" is /r/bitcoin's discussion level..

Someone I know spent the day hanging with grade 8's incidentally a few are invested in crypto.

Not all voices in this space are equal or knowledgeable.

 

[Peter R]

Peter, do you have a link to that presentation that you could share?

They recorded the presentation and told me it would be up in a week or so. I'll share the link when I have it.

 

[yrral86]

On a side note: Scary and weird to see how Karl Marx is being celebrated in Germany these days (200th birthday). The collapse of the Soviet Union isn't 30 years old yet, people are starving in Venezuela for everyone to see, and still, people celebrate the visionary for the enslavement of billions of people. Hammer and sickle is not an iota better than the Swastika.

Hammer and sickle was Lenin, not Marx. Marx's communism was rooted in empowering local communities. Decentralized governance, workers rights. You are right that those who abused his ideas to create autocracies are no better than the Nazis, but that was not Marx.

If you can provide a quote from the communist manifesto or das kapital that shows Marx was in favor of autocracy or fascism, I will gladly admit that I am mistaken.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

Not directly from the Communist manifesto or "Das Kapital"
(a long and boring fantasy book)..but (in German, I hope google translate will be good enough):

Let's start with the innocent classical quote:

Die Philosophen haben die Welt nur verschieden interpretiert; es kommt aber darauf an, sie zu verändern.

Well, he wasn't "just a thinker" as many young leftists say, he did want to change the world. So it's just fair to attribute the changes he demande to him.

And what did he demand?

Zwischen der kapitalistischen und der kommunistischen Gesellschaft liegt die Periode der revolutionären Umwandlung der einen in die andre. Der entspricht auch eine politische Übergangsperiode, deren Staat nichts andres sein kann als die revolutionäre Diktatur des Proletariats.

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me19/me19_013.htm

He demanded the horrifying stuff Lenin, Stalin and Mao eventually did. The "dictatorship of the proletariat".

There is only one way, revolutinary terror:

Die resultatlosen Metzeleien seit den Juni- und Oktobertagen, das langweilige Opferfest seit Februar und März, der Kannibalismus der Kontrerevolution selbst wird die Völker überzeugen, daß es nur ein Mittel gibt, die mörderischen Todeswehen der alten Gesellschaft, die blutigen Geburtswehen der neuen Gesellschaft abzukürzen, zu vereinfachen, zu konzentrieren, nur ein Mittel - den revolutionären Terrorismus.

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me05/me05_455.htm

As a delicacy, Marx about jews:

Wir erkennen also im Judentun ein allgemeines gegenwärtiges antisoziales Element, welches durch die geschichtliche Entwicklung, an welcher die |373| Juden in dieser schlechten Beziehung eifrig mitgearbeitet, auf seine jetzige Höhe getrieben wurde, auf eine Höhe, auf welcher es sich notwendig auflösen muß.

Die Judenemanzipation in ihrer letzten Bedeutung ist die Emanzipation der Menschheit vom Judentum.

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me01/me01_347.htm

btw: Funnily enough, some articles by Marx are not easy to find and they are edited out of archives because of copyright laws...

 

[cypherdoc]

In what amount of time does it take for an ordinary BCH tx to traverse 90% of its network nodes ?

 

[yrral86]

Not directly from the Communist manifesto or "Das Kapital"
(a long and boring fantasy book)..but (in German, I hope google translate will be good enough):

Let's start with the innocent classical quote:

Well, he wasn't "just a thinker" as many young leftists say, he did want to change the world. So it's just fair to attribute the changes he demande to him.

And what did he demand?


http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me19/me19_013.htm

He demanded the horrifying stuff Lenin, Stalin and Mao eventually did. The "dictatorship of the proletariat".

There is only one way, revolutinary terror:

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me05/me05_455.htm

As a delicacy, Marx about jews:

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me01/me01_347.htm

btw: Funnily enough, some articles by Marx are not easy to find and they are edited out of archives because of copyright laws...

Seriously, thank you for the history lesson. It seems his philosophy was quite a bit more autocratically predisposed than I was aware of.

And yes, Das Kapital is exceedingly boring. To be honest, I didn't make it all the way through.

 

[sickpig]

New version of BU cash available (1.3.0.1).

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8hdici/bitcoin_unlimited_bitcoin_cash_edition_1301_has/

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

Seriously, thank you for the history lesson. It seems his philosophy was quite a bit more autocratically predisposed than I was aware of.

Well, that's why I'm so pissed by all this celebration and distortion of history.. The radical left managed to separate the gruesome crimes done by them, from their ideology, that lead to these crimes. And also managed to make ideas like expropriation and a omnipotent government an acceptable ideology in the mainstream.

And yes, Das Kapital is exceedingly boring. To be honest, I didn't make it all the way through.

Even the hardcore leftists I know (which aren't all bad people personally btw) admit that they didn't manage to read it completely.

And why should anybody. It's a fantasy world built on premises contrary to the real world.

 

[Zarathustra]

There is only one way, revolutinary terror:

http://www.mlwerke.de/me/me05/me05_455.htm


.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

@Zarathustra
There is a difference between violence and "revolutionary terror". The French revolution turned against the people by using the second. Every socialist revolution used terror to suppress the people.

And if you read Marx' quote completely you know what he is talking about.