Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is effectively Quantum Computing attack-resistant

https://www.yours.org/content/bitcoin-cash--bch--is-effectively-quantum-computing-attack-resistant-adbcd22b87b9

 

[deadalnix]

No it's not.

 

[cypherdoc]

care to elaborate?

 

[awemany]

Reading this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8hmz9i/fit_more_into_memo_an_idea_for_extreme_data/

and especially the answers along the lines of 'hey, great I idea, it is awesome how much the BCH community can think out of the box', I wonder:

- is the original author (less than 6month old account) simply, as he says himself, completely non-technical and honestly reinventing the wheel because he does not know better? (Which would be totally excusable)

- or is someone trying to discredit the community with that post and the corresponding reddit submission and feedback?

- what is the intent of the other redditors, most of them again very new accounts?

Or am I seeing ghosts here?

I suspect many of us now are actually working on stuff and doing less talking because the time for internet keyboard wars regarding BTC blocksize is over and, well, now some "interesting" kinds of posts show up and get upvoted on r/btc. But again, maybe I am just trying to interpret too much into nothing here. No offense meant to anyone.

 

[torusJKL]

Steve Patterson is a long time Bitcoin member and has recently said in his Podcast that he switched completely to Bitcoin Cash.

I don't know how deep his technical knowledge is.

 

[awemany]

@torusJKL: I see. Well, as I said, IMO he's excused for reinventing ideas about compression schemes as he's prefacing his whole yours post with a "I am 100% non-technical" disclaimer.

I am also not saying compression does not make sense, sure if you want, go ahead and do it, or embed a hash as another commenter suggested or whatever. And in that sense, I agree that he's likely giving good input even to the ones who want to do memo.cash on the chain.

So far so good.

But I was just a little bit overwhelmed by the number of posters who had both a 'new' flair and cheered this idea as if it was the best thing since sliced bread. I hade a slight suspicion of a 'make this community look ridiculous' kind of troll mode.

Not because it was one or two such comments, which would be expected in a diverse community, but simply a few too many for my taste. Upon rereading it, I now feel I was probably reading too much into it the first time. Does that make sense?

Maybe it is also a sign the start of "BCH eternal september" with lots of new and non-technical folks entering the space. We all want that, I guess.

 

[cypherdoc]

@awemany

>Does that make sense?

i've similarly been perplexed with several other threads excited about dumping all sorts of data into the blockchain. i still disagree, in that i think BCH should stay first and foremost simply money. but @theZerg is certainly right that there is no end to the apparent number of ppl who want to store data of all sorts, not even thinking about the money aspect. assuming OP_RETURN will be the method going forward, how much extra data is 220 bytes for these types of tx's result in for storage? hard to say as it depends on demand, not just the idea.

 

[awemany]

@cypherdoc: I am not too worried as long as it can all be pruned away. I see it like Gavin, paraphrasing him badly, he AFAIR said something along the lines of "why should one even store all the old crap...". The blockchain rather as an unforgeable timestamping service than an infinite public data store.

I was more concerned about the appearance of the thread being a bunch of newbies without too much technical understanding of the chain cheering this and communicating "we are all clueless" the seemingly most effective way. And, again, nothing against honest lack of knowledge and asking questions like the originator did, but I just sensed painting us all as clueless might have become a new trolling opportunity.

And again, I like not to become an arrogant Core-like dickhead here against non-technical folks. It was just a lot of contrast to what I usually expect, I guess, and it triggered my 'they're trying to do their social media bullshit tactics' senses.

 

[cypherdoc]

@awemany

i agree. and tbh, it's hard work to continue the "Bitcoin is only Sound Money" mantra. especially now that we've settled the OP_GROUP issue and the price is headed back up, at least for the short term and everything else seems to be on cruise control; for now.

 

[awemany]

@cypherdoc: I really like to finally see a dynamic blocksize scheme implemented for the next or next-next fork. Plus the necessities surrounding it, like having fully dealt with any network message size problems vs. blocksize. I don't care about bikeshedding the details so much (50%, 75% miner voting resp. x times moving average, median, whatever) except of course over-constraining the potential growth speed in case of need too much.

The last bit needed for not only cruise control but comfortable auto-pilot feeling, IMO

 

[cypherdoc]

@awemany

i agree 100%. adaptive blocksize should be the next or next to upgrade.
[doublepost=1525715031,1525714287][/doublepost]i think it's great that an anonymous dev reported this bug apparently. this means that the "dev team" extends beyond the publicly known one's maintaining the repos. alot of people care that BCH remains viable. could have even been a core dev, who knows:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8hmqk6/critical_vulnerability_applicable_to_miners_of/

 

[Zarathustra]

@Zarathustra
There is a difference between violence and "revolutionary terror". The French revolution turned against the people by using the second. Every socialist revolution used terror to suppress the people.

And if you read Marx' quote completely you know what he is talking about.

Aristocrats and other right wing collectivists always called Mandela a socialist terrorist.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/nelson-mandela-und-der-westen-angst-vor-dem-schwarzen-terroristen-1.1837367#redirectedFromLandingpage

 

[Peter R]

@awemany

That was an interesting read. I think the author was genuine and actually did discover data compression, of course almost a century after Claude Shannon's pioneering work on the topic.

I think these events can be really useful in educating the community. Firstly, to give a bit of a history lesson, but secondly to explore the idea from a child-like first-principles perspective.

And the idea is pretty interesting if you think about it from the perspective of a child first learning about this. With the new 220 byte OP_RETURN limit, there would be 6.5 x 10^529 unique messages that could be communicated! Regardless of how long a memo could be, could we ever use up all 6.5x10^529 of them? Of course we could never use them all up! Which is then interesting to think about why the author's plan to allow for arbitrarily-long messages with the appropriate encoding scheme doesn't actually work. I'm not sure if I really know the answer myself.

 

[awemany]

@Zarathustra:
When I recently found the following quote by Ayn Rand, I had to think of the recurring "Civilization" theme here in this thread

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

(source)

A recurring decent part of my higher needs and urges is becoming more and/or staying autonomous so that quote resonated with me.

 

[Zarathustra]

> Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

@awemany

Privacy is the opposite of progress. It's a sign of decadence. It is the beginning of the end.

After 10'000 years of that so called 'progress' toward 'Individualism and Civilization as a process of setting man free from men' - we proudly present the results:

 

[cypherdoc]

our beloved midmagic. she is one BCH of an account:

 

[awemany]

@Zarathustra: I guess the bottom picture represents collectivism quite far from what Rand's quote was aspiring to, so would not be my definition of civilization.

Regarding the top picture, I can only say: Harmless mainstream entertainment, so what? You seem to care about the masses - but you seem to forget the few.

Just because 10000s continue to live like apes (and attending a mass concert would not be a defining factor IMO, though I guess is your illustration for that point?... but where exactly is the privacy there?!?) does not mean that hundreds cannot live like humans. As invisible as they might be - to the masses.

And one can avoid the mass concert. Which is IMO exactly what the quote above is saying. I am not proposing to autocratically forbid mass concerts. Why do you even care? I cannot see many things less harmful than that (other than the damn noise, get off my lawn ).

I am supporting the notion that folks can freely avoid those.

The most important freedom is the freedom to walk away.

 

[solex]

A Bitcoin Unlimited membership voting period is open for seven BUIPs

These include development initiatives to improve network handling of double-spend attempts, a proposed opt-in malleability fix, a proposed update to bitcoincash URI, funds for a developer contract, and five new membership applications.

BU members are invited to use the voting system to record their decisions.

 

[Richy_T]

Reading this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8hmz9i/fit_more_into_memo_an_idea_for_extreme_data/

It's not like this is a new thought or that people haven't thought of this kind of thing before (I know I personally was wondering about such schemes back in the 00s). The issue is that for such small items, rewards are small-to-nonexistant (considering you have to account for languages, fonts, dialects and new words, 'slang' and even typos) and processing and other costs are high. For bigger items, existing compression schemes work exceedingly well, especially on text.

Not that I'm trying to discourage anyone. It just doesn't seem like it's a fruitful line of pursuit to me. Also, I'm highly skeptical about memo.cash (though again, I would not want to discourage anyone from pushing ahead).

 

[AdrianX]

Or am I seeing ghosts here?

@awemany Given what has happened in bitcoin I think we as a bunch have become extremely cynical as well as skeptical.

My diagnosis is you are expressing sighs of the new phenomenon known as Poe's syndrome.

Poe's law + A form of post-traumatic brockstream.