Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

how purdy:

 

[8up]

Money is transfered from the impatient to the patient.

Money is transfered from the biased to the open minded.

Money is transfered from statists to contrarians.

The risk/reward profiles of BTC and BCH are vastly different and very much in favor of BCH.
BTC making another x10 will just pull BCH up. Risk/reward profiles unchanged.

Fiat collapsing --> Gold up/collapsing --> BTC up/collapsing --> BCH up.

If you understand that formula it's merely a waiting game.

First post here for a while. I very significantly increased my BCH holdings in the last month.

Tipping point approaching?

Did the same.

 

[jessquit]

I just have this image in my head of Maxwell sitting there with some opcode exploit that has been kept private waiting for us to go live with it.

It seems unlikely that such an exploit would be able to affect POTs (Plain Old Transactions). If you're just making a POT I'm not sure how these opcodes could particularly affect you.

It's important to note that with our community's demonstrated ability to implement fixes when needed, if it turns out that there is an exploit, we should be able to fork in some damage control quickly.
[doublepost=1525341828][/doublepost]

Since day 1. But it's just a policy, so any miner can chose to do something else.

I always found it dissatisfying that the incentive system didn't have a way of punishing miners who didn't obey what the user would consider "honest mining" policies. The assumption that the incentives keep a majority of miners "honest" is fundamental to the entire premise.

 

[cypherdoc]

@jessquit you're correct. the word "honest" is used 17x in the WP in regards to the miners who are assumed to be financially incentivized enough to stay honest in the interests of the entire ecosystem (not just their niche) or else suffer the consequences of an unsound money that cheats. the fixed 21M coin supply is the fundamental driver of this honesty, just like gold. miners are the original gold diggers who stand to make themselves fabulously wealthy as long as they treat the system and all people's as a whole fairly and equitably.

 

[Mengerian]

I just read the latest Lightning Labs blog post on their future vision of the Lightning network.

It's hilarious to read, even in their pie-in-the-sky ridiculously optimistic best case scenario, Lightning is a usability nightmare.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

Reading this crap makes me sick.. (confirms instantly... ultra low fees... different from the blockchain).

Fucking assholes, that's how Bitcoin used to work for me when I received my first Satoshis. Without any of that (still technically impossible) overhead that is indeed a usability nightmare.

 

[cypherdoc]

I just read the latest Lightning Labs blog post on their future vision of the Lightning network.

It's hilarious to read, even in their pie-in-the-sky ridiculously optimistic best case scenario, Lightning is a usability nightmare.

Hey, how's this possible? :

>Finally, with Lightning, merchants have access to all funds within seconds and don’t have to wait hours or days for payouts to be processed, as with most credit card processors.

I thought the merchant couldn't cash out the channel until the payors funds were exhausted?

 

[Zarathustra]

I just read the latest Lightning Labs blog post on their future vision of the Lightning network.

It's hilarious to read, even in their pie-in-the-sky ridiculously optimistic best case scenario, Lightning is a usability nightmare.

"Once the initial Lightning setup is complete, on-chain transactions should be only rarely used to recover from network errors or to expand a user’s capacity for Lightning funds"

 

[torusJKL]

I thought the merchant couldn't cash out the channel until the payors funds were exhausted?

I think both parties can close the channel at any given time but there is a time lock so that the other party could release the punishment transaction should you have released an old state tx.

 

[cypherdoc]

@torusJKL

I'm talking about the average non attack use case wherein the buyer deposits enough funds for 3mo worth of coffees. In that scenario, no, the merchant does not have immediate access to the funds.

 

[Mengerian]

Hey, how's this possible? :

>Finally, with Lightning, merchants have access to all funds within seconds and don’t have to wait hours or days for payouts to be processed, as with most credit card processors.

By "have access to the funds", they probably mean within the Lightning network, not on-chain. In other words, they can send the money onwards to other people within the Lightning network within seconds.

 

[cypherdoc]

@Mengerian

Why would Starbucks do this?

 

[AdrianX]

Starbucks may want more counterparty risk?

 

[Mengerian]

@cypherdoc Why would Starbucks use Lightning you mean? I don't expect they would.

 

[freetrader]

[...] Autopilot will create channels with five nodes [...]

A Reading from the Book of Armaments Settlement of Payments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch Payment System of Lightning, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin waitest for the Autopilot to kick in after the deposit. Then thou must count to three five. Three Five shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three five. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three five. Five Three is right out. Once the number three five, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade Payment System of Lightning in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
King Arthur: Right. One... two... five three.
Galahad: Three Five, sir.
King Arthur: Three. Five.

With apologies to Monty Python. They clearly got it right wrong.

 

[cypherdoc]

@cypherdoc Why would Starbucks use Lightning you mean? I don't expect they would.

No. I'm asking to whom would a Starbucks-like merchant send on the customer coffee payments to within the LN, especially instantly?

 

[Zolin]

Bitcoin and gold has a strong relationship as there prices effect each other. Bitcoin will go up and hit the top price level soon and according the experts it will reach the price of $40000 at the end of this year. So stay calm, believe in your Bitcoin wallet, and hope for the best.

 

[Peter R]

Taariq Lewis (MC for Satoshi's Vision Tokyo) invited me to present at the San Francisco Crypto Dev Meetup this past Wednesday. I thought I'd report some of my findings because they were surprising to me.

This was a technical meetup where nearly everyone is an engineer. But they are also typically newer to the cryptocurrency scene. I was surprised at how much misunderstanding there was with respect to "blockchains" versus "clients" as well as the history of Bitcoin Cash.

For example, I spoke a lot about Bitcoin Unlimited, taking it for granted that people knew it wasn't its own coin. I shouldn't have taken that for granted. Many people don't differentiate between a client and a blockchain. When they realized that Bitcoin Unlimited was just a competing version of client software and not its own coin, I felt they respected it more (I suppose they no longer worry that you're trying to sell them on some new crypto and instead you're genuinely interested in doing development to improve Bitcoin).

As another example, I had one attendee come up to me and said that my presentation made him do a 180 with respect to Bitcoin Cash. He said before he thought it looked scammy because it didn't seem to have any real developers. He didn't realize that Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin ABC and Bitcoin XT were the developers for Bitcoin Cash. I worry now that this view is more common that we might think. I also think many people don't realize that BCH and BTC share the same blockchain prior to August 1, 2017.

Lastly, I further convinced myself that many people, and even a lot of developers, do not understand how simplified payment verification (SPV) works. I went through it in detail in my presentation, from how miners build the block headers, to how users transfer coins, to how a miner can prove to a user that the transaction was confirmed with just a few hundred bytes of data (the interior hashes in the Merkle path). Once people "get" why the transactions are hashed into a Merkle tree, it becomes fairly obvious that the original design was intended to scale massively with "users just being users." But if you don't have the opportunity to learn how SPV works in the first place, you can easily buy into BS/Core's "my phone needs to download all of the world's transactions in order for me to use bitcoin safely" rhetoric.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

This was a technical meetup where nearly everyone is an engineer.

Well, and now extrapolate your findings to the crypto John Doe. And I have the strong feeling that the average IQ in the "crypto scene" is lower than the average IQ of the rest of the population these days... "Muh decentralization muh Lambo" is /r/bitcoin's discussion level..

 

[8up]

Many people don't differentiate between a client and a blockchain. When they realized that Bitcoin Unlimited was just a competing version of client software and not its own coin,

Well, that's scary - but to be expected. The more Bitcoin grows (and we know it mainly grows during bubbles where get-rich-quick kids are torn into the space), the lower the average understanding of Bitcoin economics and technicals..

Pointing out the history of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash (and not taking things for granted) seems more important than a fight about the name.

And relating to an earlier post by myself: Money will be transfered to the open minded, patient, knowledgeable. It's inevitable. And as @cypherdoc once said, 95% of the people will lose money and crypto is not different (at least in the long run). Weeding out the scams will take years, but it'll happen.