Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[79b79aa8]

did slush not read the falkvinge piece on BCH? i still hold out a strand of hope for him, he has done great work. but man! read the article before tweeting on it . . .
furious george -- amateur george -- has failed to get it all along.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

Absolutely the decision making process for enacting it should be as error-free as possible,

Since "error-free as possible" is obviously very error prone I'm absolutely against it. Apart from that I don't think that any human on this planet should have the power to punish another human being. Justice will never be done on earth. A justice system should just prevent crime and protect peaceful citizens. But this is very off topic.

@79b79aa8
Look further down, he read it and still takes it serious. Slush is an idiot or an propagandist, plain and simple.

 

[Justus Ranvier]

@satoshis_sockpuppet What is market action except natural selection in the economic realm?

There are societies in the world which operate on the principle you've described.

If that view accords with reality, then they will survive and prosper. If it does not accord with reality, then those societies and their inhabitants will share the same fate as the people who've chosen incorrectly with regards to the bitcoin forks.

 

[79b79aa8]

Look further down, he read it and still takes it serious. Slush is an idiot or an propagandist, plain and simple.

har har, looks like i failed to follow my own advice. i just can't stand twitter wars.

anyway, adam back et alia can continue duking it out over irrelevant stuff, either misconstruing or failing to grasp minimally sophisticated points . . . reality continues its course.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

@Justus Ranvier
Yep, and so far it looks like the systems with a more fair justice system tend to be more successful in the long run. As do the ones with free markets etc. I suspect revenge, brutality and (government) violence "dissipate" too much "societal energy".

 

[molecular]

It seems like Ethereum Classic got pumped with a volume of a billion dollars traded today. Thoughts? Banksters trying to create confusion among coins? "A.k.a.: Bitcoin dead now, value flowing into all alts?"

The multisig contract fuckup (180 Million USD frozen in multisig because some "script kiddie" called some destroy() function of some library used in those contracts and the possible aftermath of that (slippery slope of bailouts for contracts started with DAO debacle (the birth of ETC))may have something to do with that.

 

[adamstgbit]

 

[Peter R]

BUIP 071: Make Bitcoin Cash the "Release" Version of Bitcoin Unlimited (and deprecate Bitcoin Core)

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip-071-make-bitcoin-cash-the-release-version-of-bitcoin-unlimited-deprecate-bitcoin-core.5371/

 

[Peter R]

BUIP 072: Go "partial Norway" with BU's funds

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip-072-go-partial-norway-with-bus-funds.5372/

 

[Roger_Murdock]

Well, a "Cashening" certainly looks a lot more likely now than it did a few weeks ago. But I have to admit, I still have mixed feelings about that outcome. The bottom line is that the only reason that Bitcoin Cash has a chance of overthrowing the chain that currently has the most accumulated proof of work is because the miners are in the process of 51% attacking the latter chain and have been for quite some time. That is, after all, what keeping the 1-MB limit in place long after it's become absurdly inadequate represents.

There's also the somewhat unseemly "manipulation" angle:

Miners announcing planned 2-MB hard fork: "Don't worry. In a few months, we're finally going to take the first tiny, long-overdue step to begin addressing the BTC chain's capacity crisis."

meanwhile launching (and presumably accumulating) Bitcoin Cash

Miners announcing 2-MB cancellation a few months later: "On second thought, we're actually just going to leave the BTC chain exactly how it is now, allowing its performance to degrade more and more over time until it's completely unusable."

Cash moons and BTC tanks

The only thing keeping me from going "full Norway" is my fear that the miners will reverse course again before the shift to Bitcoin Cash becomes truly irreversible.

 

[adamstgbit]

BUIP 072: Go "partial Norway" with BU's funds

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/buip-072-go-partial-norway-with-bus-funds.5372/

i think the funds should be diversified out even more.
obviously buying more BCH is a good idea.
but also investing it in other safer things ( not ICOs ) might be something to think about.

 

[AdrianX]

1 MB blocks actually work as a panic brake, even more so when half the HP is missing.. it's like closing the stock exchange.

I have no idea what fee to use to send BTC to an exchange right now..

Not if you have BTC on exchange and you've been drinking, - some times it's better just to play playing space invaders.
[doublepost=1510556452,1510555528][/doublepost]

Miners announcing planned 2-MB hard fork: "Don't worry. In a few months, we're finally going to take the first tiny, long-overdue step to begin addressing the BTC chain's capacity crisis."

This game is getting very complicated. Could this be the ultimate motivator for BTC bigger blocks and to shake out big holders hands?

We may start to see big money coming in to BTC, as this could be an effective way to shift from the legacy banking system.

 

[go1111111]

The only thing keeping me from going "full Norway" is my fear that the miners will reverse course again before the shift to Bitcoin Cash becomes truly irreversible.

IMO the version of Bitcoin that becomes dominant will utilize both on-chain scaling and layer 2 infrastructure. Right now it's unclear whether this dominant chain will emerge from forking off of Core to add more on-chain scaling (like Seg2x was going to be a first step towards), or by adding L2 infrastructure to BCH. This is why I'm still holding equal amounts of each.

My main concern with BCH is that its hardcore supporters have become so anti-Layer2 (because Core presented it as the solution to all scaling needs, which it isn't), that they don't realize that it's actually pretty important for machine to machine payments and general experimentation.

I know some BCH/BU folks have some ideas about a malleability fix, but am not sure how it's being prioritized. I've been out of the loop for a while. Can someone fill me in on the most likely BCH malleability fix and it's ETA?

 

[sickpig]

@go1111111

As far as I'm aware there's no single Cash dev that is against 2nd layer solutions per se.

In fact there're a PRs floating around to fix malleability in the ABC developing (https://reviews.bitcoinabc.org/) platform written by @Tomas van der Wansem (bitcrust).

The main issue I personally have with the Core's outlined roadmap is that it implies hindering onchain scaling to wait for the developing/deploying/adoption of 2nd layer solutions (be it LN or whatever else).

For one I'm not against 2nd layer solutions, not at all.

I just don't think that they are the panacea to any scaling problems, I think they have a use but that it is not as broad as Core/smallblockist advice, but this is irrelevant to this discussion.

Finally I think Core have the priority backward.

BTC was/is on the verge of a flippening due to the centrally imposed block size limit.

The more logical thing to would had been removing it to relieve pressure by assuring that optimal block size (determined by market supply and demand curves) is always lower than the artificial cap (i.e. Q*<=Q_max to use @Peter R's notation).

This has nothing to do with being against the developing and adoption of 2nd layer solutions, at all.

 

[Erik Beijnoff]

@sickpig fully second what you just said.

My personal stance towards second layers is that I welcome any attempt at off-chaining transactions, including centralised deposit hubs or integration with Mastercard and Visa via deposits to them. Actually I'm hoping that integration with (other) payment networks will happen, and pretty soon. It would increase the reach of the network 1000-fold or more overnight.

It just shouldn't be the core focus of the Bitcoin network to develop those solutions and the network definitely shouldn't be artificially restricted or controlled to offer a demand for them.

 

[solex]

@go1111111
You are completely mis-reading the big-blocker position. Off-chain solutions are just fine.
For my own part, here is a quote from 4.5 years ago, and I still hold to it:

"3rd-party, off-chain solutions MUST take loading off the Bitcoin blockchain organically, on their own merits, not because Bitcoin has been derailed in a high-stakes gamble that the market can be forced to behave a centrally-planned way."

Contrast this with Technomage's comments a few posts earlier:

" In Finland there is most certainly no issue for mining or running a full node even at much higher blocksize limits. It will get tough for individuals after a certain point, but the point is nowhere near 1MB."

Yet, he is now a hard-bitten small-blocker of the first degree. The puzzle is what has swung some people 180 degrees over time? Is it as simple as obeisance to the "Bitcoin Wizards"?

 

[79b79aa8]

@Tom Zander don't know whether to be sorry or happy to hear Classic is closing up shop. sorry for obvious reasons -- the Classic client was always the easiest one for me to run. happy because i want to think your experience and effort will be directed to surmounting new challenges in this evolving space.

 

[79b79aa8]

@go1111111

it would be great to see LN be deployed, i hold BTC and want it to continue appreciating. most of all i would like to see use cases for bitcoin become firmly established among the general public.

but based on information openly available, what technology do you think is more likely to bring us microtransactions: (very) large blocks, or the lightning network? i see the first as essentially proven, the latter as essentially not. please correct if wrong.

 

[freetrader]

Apparently we are now "Crypto-Keynesians" for wanting to ensure Bitcoin remains useful as a payment system.

I feel Jimmy'ed.

https://medium.com/p/segwit2x-post-mortem-divorce-of-crypto-austrians-and-crypto-keynesians-87960b11ce4c

 

[hodl]

Is it as simple as obeisance to the "Bitcoin Wizards"?

that, plus a swelling of the BTC price to a level he most likely never deemed possible, to the point where he has become rich beyond his wildest dreams; while terrified at doing anything to upend his apple cart.