Coronavirus: COVID-19 pandemic and lockdown

[cypherblock]

Plenty of people outside where I live, walking round the block, playing with kids in their own yards/driveways. They did block off parking for a walking trail but trail itself is still open AFAIK. No reason to stay inside, just avoid getting near people. If you're in a state/country preventing this they are likely doing it wrong.

 

[Zarathustra]

My prediction to the lockdown catastrophe defenders @cypherblock and @Bloomie et al.:

Sweden (no lockdown, no bullshit, restaurants still open) will not face exponential growth of deaths. It will be the opposite. The numbers will collapse the next weeks. On the other hand, Africa, India, Bangladesh etc. will be confronted with millions of children and adults, dying not from COVID-19, but from worldwide swarm stupidity, led by panic doctors and epidemiologists (socioeconomic idiots).


Santa Clara study: Mortality 50 - 85 x lower than official numbers.....

COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California

Background Addressing COVID-19 is a pressing health and social concern. To date, many epidemic projections and policies addressing COVID-19 have been designed without seroprevalence data to inform epidemic parameters. We measured the seroprevalence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in Santa Clara...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[cypherblock]

My prediction to the lockdown catastrophe defenders @cypherblock and @Bloomie et al.:

You just can't help but troll , constantly mischaracterizing others positions in order to gain favor with your 'faction'. If you agree not to mention or quote me, I will do the same back. For the sake of the forum

 

[Zarathustra]

You defended the murderous lockdown terror several times and insisted on more data collection before the lockdown should be relaxed.

It was just as easy to predict that you will try to weasel out instead of taking responsibility for the desaster.

 

[cypherblock]

Your do nothing approach is a best a roll of the dice, and at worst a gun to the head. You think any action at all is the bane of all evil and assume that anyone who supports any rule of law supports absolute suppression of human rights. You have no interest in truth, fact or debate. Your only goal is to score points with the anti-govs you hope are listening to you, so you continually misrepresent and lie because you hope it will resonate.

Fortunately most people are wiser. We understand that this is not just a bad flu, but a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad flu. It is more severe and spreads faster than any flu in the past century. And instead of lauding the very tests that will allow people to resume their normal activities and give the full scope of the spread of the disease (results that could even support your case that it is not really that bad), you claim these are not necessary and we should all just kumbaya and hug (because Iceland and Sweeden !!)

If you ever wish to even consider that another persons point of view has some validity or is worthy of being explored then feel free to do that. Until then I suggest we not quote or reference each other directly.

 

[Zarathustra]

> Your do nothing approach is a best a roll of the dice, and at worst a gun to the head. You think any action at all is the bane of all evil and assume that anyone who supports any rule of law supports absolute suppression of human rights.

How many times do you want to repeat your stupid lies? How many times do we need to tell you that the Swedes and Japanese don't do nothing? But they reject your murderous lockdown idiocy. They reject a medicin that is orders of magnitude more deadly than a flu. You would deserve to be quarantined without food with the millions of victims in India, Bangladesh or Nigeria.


> You have no interest in truth, fact or debate. Your only goal is to score points with the anti-govs you hope are listening to you, so you continually misrepresent and lie because you hope it will resonate.

I'm pro swedish gov, and pro Japanese gov., you genius.

"He who knoweth the reader, doeth nothing more for the reader. Another century of readers--and spirit itself will stink."

> Fortunately most people are wiser. We understand that this is not just a bad flu, but a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad flu. It is more severe and spreads faster than any flu in the past century.

Obviously you know nothing. The spanish flu killed 40 million people of the 2 billion inhabitants at that time. This flu will kill less than 0,1% of the 'do nothing population of Sweden', you genius. "Wise people", lol.


> If you ever wish to even consider that another persons point of view has some validity or is worthy of being explored then feel free to do that. Until then I suggest we not quote or reference each other directly.

Your (non-) point of view is an insult to any intelligence that may be present anywhere among the downlocked brains of the lockdowners.

For example, my mother is wise. She is 88, knows what to do to stay healthy and fit, walks in the fresh air every day, goes to the sun, does not listen too much to the panic virus experts' panic, goes shopping herself. Says it's not a problem if old, sick people can't survive a flu. Believes, that we should not create mass unemployment and economic catastrophes to fight a flu that mostly kills people who are already in a near-dead situation.

 

[cypherblock]

How many times do you want to repeat your stupid lies?

If you stop brazenly mischaracterizing my position (e.g. "But they reject your murderous lockdown idiocy." ) , or better yet just never directly refer to me, then you can expect similar treatment. Yes you support "do nothing" as much as I support "murderous lockdown".

Closing restaurants and bars, schools, in US for a few weeks while we figure out the scope of the disease, requiring remote remote work where possible, and allowing most other business to operate (with some restrictions) does not equate to a "murderous lockdown", nor does supporting some of these policies equate to far, far, harsher restrictions in less affluent nations throughout the world.

Additionally, despite the lax approach there the people of Sweden seem to have other ideas, they are imposing their own "murderous lockdown" so in the end there will still be pain:

"However, foreign minister Ann Linde, who spoke alongside Carlson at Friday’s briefing in Stockholm, dismissed the idea that life goes on as normal in Sweden, calling it “a myth.”

“Many people stay at home and have stopped travelling. Many businesses are collapsing. Unemployment is expected to rise dramatically,” Linde said.

“There is no full lockdown of Sweden, but many parts of Swedish society have shut down,” she argued."

As virus deaths rise, Sweden sticks to 'low-scale' lockdown -

SAN DIEGO (KUSI) – A recent article in Vanity Fair looked at how Sweden is attempting to flatten the curve and beat the coronavirus pandemic without going on lockdown. USC Professor Joel Hay joined Good Morning San Diego to discuss the article. Sweden is pursuing relatively liberal policies to...

www.kusi.com

So your vaunted Sweden approach in the end equates to same result as in a lot of other places. Which is probably for the best (not the economic pain but the people taking things further than gov guidelines). If NYC had everyone going out to restaurants/bars, basically acting as usual plus a bit of social distancing and keeping elderly at home, it would likely be a far greater mess than it already is. Thinking that this lax approach is correct in the epicenter of an outbreak, whose scope we don't understand yet, is bonkers.

Between 12-17 million people died in India due to Spanish flu. My guess is that the leaders there would like to avoid a similar outcome. Starving millions of people I don't think is in their plans, but yes they are capable of screwing it up if done wrong. Already restrictions are being lifted (as was obvious from the start it would not last very long). Is there a risk that India has taken things too far, sure. In fact it is the people there themselves, in some regions, not the government that have caused additional problems (just like in Sweden), by preventing truck deliveries of food and supplies out of fear, when the government rules allow those deliveries to occur.

Understanding when how to behave in the midst of disease requires data and science. Data can come through testing both antibody and pcr, to understand the spread and the threat. We don't need to roll the dice. Push to get the testing done and then the fear can subside where appropriate and countries will come out of the dark.

 

[Zarathustra]

If you stop brazenly mischaracterizing my position (e.g. "But they reject your murderous lockdown idiocy." ) , or better yet just never directly refer to me, then you can expect similar treatment. Yes you support "do nothing" as much as I support "murderous lockdown".

The lockdown is murderous. You just prefer to deny it.

If NYC had everyone going out to restaurants/bars, basically acting as usual plus a bit of social distancing and keeping elderly at home, it would likely be a far greater mess than it already is.
Thinking that this lax approach is correct in the epicenter of an outbreak, whose scope we don't understand yet, is bonkers.

The lax approach in the epicenter of an outbreak (Stockholm) is of course not bonkers.

So your vaunted Sweden approach in the end equates to same result as in a lot of other places.

A lockdown light does of course not equate to the same result. That should be obvious even to you. The result is also bad, because your wise poeple have shut down their economies in all of Swedens business partners in Europe and elsewhere, you genius. Your arguments are bursting with economic expertise.

Italy's bankruptcy after the lockdown - caused by Cypherblock's wise people (supporters of the chancellor on the brink of another bailout) - won't be fun. Those who are supposed to help are already insulted as Hitler's grandsons, because their chancellor is not (yet) on the brink of another bailout.
And that's just one problem among the many that will soon be marveled at in this theater, caused by Cypherblock's wise people, all of them socioeconomic geniuses. That's how it goes when doctors and epidemiologists are moved up to a central planning steering committee of the homo oeconomicus.

 

[Zarathustra]

There are indeed some real wise people out there.

John Ioannidis, known for metascience.

Metascience (also known as meta-research or evidence-based research) is the use of scientific methodology to study science itself. Metascience seeks to increase the quality of scientific research while reducing waste. It is also known as "research on research" and "the science of science", as it uses research methods to study how research is done and where improvements can be made. Metascience concerns itself with all fields of research and has been described as "a bird's eye view of science."[1] In the words of John Ioannidis, "Science is the best thing that has happened to human beings ... but we can do it better."



"Data suggest that the fatality rate is in the same ballpark as seasonal influenza."

"Devastation by the meltdown/lockdown can be extreme and it can be far worse than anything that the coronavirus can do."

Who would have thought:

"Hospitals are the worst place to fight the war with covid-19. We should have done our best to keep people away from the hospitals, unless they had very serious symptoms.
Unfortunately we saw many people go to the hospitals under the sense of fear and panic."


The murderous consequences of the lockdown in detail:

 

[Zarathustra]

Off topic:

While the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic, the head of the United Nations food agency warned on Tuesday that a looming "hunger pandemic" will bring "the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II."

 

[cypherdoc]

Hospitals Around the World are Being Targeted by Conspiracy Theorists

New Analysis from @SMLabTo Shows How a Meme is Being Used as a Weapon Against Expertise Post by: Anatoliy Gruzd and Philip Mai In the midst of a global pandemic, conspiracy theorists have foun…

covid19misinfo.org

 

[Zarathustra]

My personal conspiracy theory is that these assholes have been recruited by governments to discredit those who reject the lockdown madness.

 

[cypherdoc]

yeah, here's just another scamming healthcare professional seeking attention, praise, and status:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/nyregion/new-york-city-doctor-suicide-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Zarathustra]

Thousands of Covid-19 flu victims - millions of lockdown medicine victims. Amazing that the latter ones don't count.

If unemployment increases by 1 percent, the suicide rate increases by 1 percent.

Japan: ten times less lockdown, hundred times less deaths.

While the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic, the head of the United Nations food agency warned on Tuesday that a looming "hunger pandemic" will bring "the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II."

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Lockdowns bear:

• Direct social costs:

Years of life lost due to the psychosocial consequences of COVID19 mitigation strategies based on Swiss data

Background The pandemic caused by COVID-19 has forced governments to implement strict social mitigation strategies to reduce the morbidity and mortality from acute infections. These strategies however carry a significant risk for mental health which can lead to increased short-term and long-term...

www.medrxiv.org

That's, for instance, a million and half years of life lost for the Swiss.

• Huge economic costs, which will turn into indirect social costs (that's many deaths also).

So if the goal is to save the maximum lives, lockdowns don't seem rational at all. The rational analysis is even worse if we take into account year of life losts, instead of sheer lives, since people dying from covid are mostly old people with not many remaining years of life, whereas the victims of direct and indirect social costs of lockdowns will be younger on average.

And this doesn't take into account the risk on civil liberties which will be very hard to get back (everywhere in the world, income tax was temporary). And the geopolitical risks that are rising due to destroyed economies.

I think at this stage people who support lockdowns are part of the problem, and it's a huge problem.

 

[Norway]

While the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic, the head of the United Nations food agency warned on Tuesday that a looming "hunger pandemic" will bring "the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II."

Why do I get the feeling that UN is trying to kick off man-made catastrophes? First the obvious fake corona pandemic via WHO, now this?

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2020

I recommend that people do like me and buy a 1 year food supply with Mountain House #10 cans. (These cans last at least 25 years, in reality probably 40 years. Don't get the stuff in bags, much shorter shelf life.)

It doesn't take up much space, and with this in your house, you don't have to worry about food for yourself and family.

Got a little concerned when I checked their website now. Everything is sold out

#10 Cans

Mountain House #10 cans give you enough food to power you and your family. These cans provide up to 10 servings to ensure you always have a hot meal when needed.

www.mountainhouse.com

A good tip is to also get a couple of small fish nets just in case. I think this is a good way to get proteins long term. Set the net out in the evening, harvest fish early the morning after. Stealthy and efficient. Works for both salt water and fresh water.

 

[bitsko]

chickens dont need much space, most people in the usa arent aware you can keep fresh unwashed chicken eggs on the countertop, and they have a richness in flavor not possible with standard mass production methods.

 

[AdrianX]

Thousands of Covid-19 flu victims - millions of lockdown medicine victims. Amazing that the latter ones don't count.

FT;FU "Billions"

And, as suspected, the treatment is the number 1 cause of death, that and well as one's health and metabolic entropy being the number 1 predicted of severity by a viral infection. in fact, the lockdown has done literally nothing statistically to extend human life for the vunrable.

Post automatically merged: Apr 29, 2020

and they have a richness in flavor not possible with standard mass production methods.

LOL, my palate is so evolved I can't handle the test of produce that's not devoid of nutrients unless I've developed a test for it. re chickens, there are 2.5 chickens for every human, and they are legally allowed about 1 square foot in most of the world.

 

[Norway]

The fact that UN warned about famine and that Mountain House is sold out, made me buy 24 kg rice today with oxygen absorbants and 5 liter plastic buckets I will seal with silicone. This will last many years and is great for extending my Mountain House supply and good with fish / roe deer if I need to fish/hunt.

 

[Norway]

While the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic, the head of the United Nations food agency warned on Tuesday that a looming "hunger pandemic" will bring "the worst humanitarian crisis since World War II."

What is your source on this @Zarathustra? Are you talking about the cucksucker David Beasley (World Food Program, Executive Director)?

In this interview, he presents himself as he has anything to do with the worlds private supplychains of food. Which he doesn't. This leech is a top bureaucrat that never made an honest trade. He is in charge of "supplychain" in emergencies when you drop off and distribute emergency food to a small population in a food crisis.

In this recent Bloomberg intreview, he claims that Corona virus is shutting down the supplychains, creating world famine.

And that's why he wants more donations to his project.

But 'rona is not more leathal than seasonal flu. A couple of months sheltering is not going to sink the ships, break the warehouses, crash the trucks and destroy everything.

However, a financial crisis because money itself breaks is very possible, and that will be a total clusterfuck for anyone trying to exchange goods and services.