Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Discussion in 'Economics and Policy' started by cypherdoc, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. KoKansei

    KoKansei
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2016
    Messages:
    25
    Likes:
    233
    reddit:
    KoKansei
  2. awemany

    awemany
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,012
    Likes:
    3,285
    @Zarathustra : What is the idea behind the fractal? Moving to the larger convergent area? The comparison has somewhat of a mismatch there - both the BU and BC areas are convergent in your picture.

    @Zangelbert Bingledack : I must admit, I am also 'out of the loop' regarding stuff lately, simply avoiding all the drama. Is it correct that Samson Mow got a job at Blockstream as well, or did I misread some rumors?
     
  3. albin

    albin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    847
    Likes:
    3,558
    reddit:
    d4d5c4e5
    I'm torn even on the viability of the juicing craze in general, much less batshit crazy VC boondoggles like the Juicero.

    I feel like there is much more of a sense in the popular culture that juicing is a scam, at least compared to the beliefs held in my parents' generation (even a no-BS badass oldschool guy like Jack LaLanne cashed in putting his name on juicing machines), but on the other side of the coin, I don't think it's possible to over-estimate the desire for people to find rationalizations to drink sugar without the fiber!
     
  4. Tomothy

    Tomothy
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    Likes:
    160
    There is, (imho) 100% a connection between CA and CSW. How far back it goes is where things start getting interesting. It seems like it goes all the way back to the beginning. I'm pretty sure there are some out there already but it all blends together.
     
    Norway and majamalu like this.
  5. Mengerian

    Mengerian
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    1,908
    reddit:
    Mengerian
    Norway and majamalu like this.
  6. Bagatell

    Bagatell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    618
    Likes:
    891
    reddit:
    Bagatell_
    @Mengerian

    As long as the value of cryptos generally is increasing, that's the only way it can go, isn't it?
     
  7. AdrianX

    AdrianX
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes:
    3,661
    @awemany @Zangelbert Bingledack that Reddit link is just hilarious to read. Thanks.

    It's bullish for bitcoin or crypto now that core insist on limiting bitcoin capacity.

    I'm in the product development industry and I've heard all the conversations, I've been in all meeting, read the mark research, the unique selling propositions, and interacted with all the decision makers driving such projects more times than I can count over 3 decades.

    This is not just a VC failure. It's multiple failures the most obvious to me is technology for technologies sake, the lack of understanding of disposable income usage in the target market, (failing to comprehend growing wealth inequality) inexperienced designers, over saturation of competitive fast moving consumer goods markets, the need to put capital to work and excess manufacturing capacity.

    At every level of the development process is someone that has a salary that is dependent on not understand the greater picture.

    I think it's a good sign for Bitcoin. Literally the market has solved all the needs in society but one. Sound money. We're getting to the points where competing to solve a need is increasingly more risky than just investing in the need to fix the money system. I say this from first had experiences.

    We live in a world where ~60% of the global population is not needed they are outside the capitalist system (they live in poverty and can not contribute in any way) and the 20% that do all the work are fast being replace by automation, (. The result is, economic growth is not serving the vast majority of humanity and new growth is feeding not wage slavery but automation. A new all inclusive class is emerging it will be the creative class, and it needs deflation to prosper.

    [​IMG]

    Understanding the solution to the problem can bee seen through the Degrowth movement (Décroissance) . They have one problem they reject free market capitalism when they actually just reject economic growth, what I expect to see with the rise of deflation typical with the adoption bitcoin is decentralized Degrowth philology propagate more widely.

    The juicing craze is a symptom of the malnutrition that manifests as obesity in industrialized nations, its an appropriate reaction to a voluntary caloric restricted diet with increased nutrients. watch http://www.fatsickandnearlydead.com/ its not the sugar people are after its the nutrients.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2017 ---
    it's inflationary if the number of competing cryptos grows, the result is crypto will not be a good store of value.

    i think there will be a swing back to bitcoin, I think the ultimate swing will be triggered by the removal of the 1MB transaction limit.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2017 ---
    who is CA?
     
    steffen, majamalu, lunar and 2 others like this.
  8. bitsko

    bitsko
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    336
    reddit:
    bitsko
    This pastebin of Guy Corem trying to reason with proponents of the contrived propagandaboost scandal provides a pretty solid overview of the problem faced, with links to the relevant medium articles. Thought I would post it here for historical reasons. https://pastebin.com/kx6ALyQr

    -------------------------

    @awemany, I make no claims as to the accuracy of these messages or the accuracy of people behind them, however- here is what we've collected so far...

    https://pastebin.com/j7rdRQHM

    https://pastebin.com/QD6vPGSV

    https://pastebin.com/jace5Fvf

    I don't mean to waste anyone's time who is not interested; but I am both captivated and entertained by these dialogues. So I set them here for others who may be so inclined.
     
    Norway, majamalu, jake and 3 others like this.
  9. Zangelbert Bingledack

    Zangelbert Bingledack
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes:
    4,121
    reddit:
    ForkiusMaximus
    The more I read about Juicero the more Segwit makes total sense as part of Blockstream's overengineered method of ensuring Bitcoin users get funneled into using their products. Segwit's heavy discount for witness data is like the Juicero DRM that prevents third-party juice packs. "In case there's a spinach recall..." sounds as flimsy as Greg's justifications.

    And the topper is that you can squeeze the juice packs by hand (or with a simple press), but the overpriced, overengineered, company-favoring solution is preferred. Remind you of anything?

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...alley-s-400-juicer-may-be-feeling-the-squeeze

    If there is any promise here, competitors will offer cheap standard-size packs of minced fruits and vegetables and a $50 pressing machine without the DRM.
     
    #19209 Zangelbert Bingledack, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    Norway, awemany, 8up and 7 others like this.
  10. freetrader

    freetrader
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes:
    4,601
  11. Peter R

    Peter R
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes:
    4,501
    reddit:
    Peter__R
    Norway, Dusty, awemany and 8 others like this.
  12. freetrader

    freetrader
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes:
    4,601
    Additional irony and free radicals are contained in the realization of who will be squeezing whom, for what.

     
    majamalu, xhiggy, AdrianX and 2 others like this.
  13. Zangelbert Bingledack

    Zangelbert Bingledack
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes:
    4,121
    reddit:
    ForkiusMaximus
    @Peter R That's pretty great as is.
     
    freetrader, awemany and 79b79aa8 like this.
  14. Mengerian

    Mengerian
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    1,908
    reddit:
    Mengerian
    Juicero - Instead of buying juice directly, buy a more expensive bag of pulp to make juice in a complex multi-stage process

    Segwit/LN - Instead of transacting in Bitcoin directly, set up a Lightning Network channel to transact in Bitcoins in a complex multi-step process

    Juicero - Requires that consumers purchase artificially expensive pulp bags and pressing machine to make business model work.

    Segwit/LN - Requires consumers pay artificially expensive on-chain transaction fees, created through on-chain capacity limits, for business model to work.

    Juicero - Must be connected to internet to work.

    Segwit/LN - Must be connected to network to make sure funds aren't stolen from the Lightning channel

    Juicero - Over-engineered, needlessly complex, more expensive and less useful than pre-existing methods.

    Segwit/LN - Over-engineered, needlessly complex, more expensive and less useful than pre-existing methods.
     
    #19214 Mengerian, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    Norway, freetrader, awemany and 7 others like this.
  15. lunar

    lunar
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    639
    Likes:
    2,609
    A who's who, of who to block on twitter.

    Following antbleed before the story broke,

    [​IMG]
    @AdrianX I assume CA= Calvin Ayre
     
    #19215 lunar, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  16. xhiggy

    xhiggy
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    99
    Likes:
    255
    Greg Maxwell is an ideal villain for Bitcoin, he knows enough on the topic to challenge Satoshis design choices and implement a modern alternative. The knowledge market surrounding Bitcoin is not fully developed. It's hard to imagine a time in the future when there would be such a one sided exploitation of it, than the one occuring via Blockstream/Core/Segwit-Lovers-Anonymous. Development reaching the masses will be a critical juncture for Bitcoin going forward and it needs to be handled well. Giving performance effecting parameters to the miners is the only way forward if bitcoin is going to be truly decentralized in all respects, it's a great insight and the next logical step for Bitcoin to grow.

    We need a marketplace for developers to list their patches or versions. Ethereums corporate funding is helping them reach developers. However, Bitcoin's governance model cannot afford that luxury, and must make up the slack with it's opportunity for massive scale.


    I wonder why Gavin left the project as he did, once this is all over I'd love to hear his recounting of the decision.
     
  17. albin

    albin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Messages:
    847
    Likes:
    3,558
    reddit:
    d4d5c4e5
    /r/btc getting heavily heavily heavily brigaded.

    Obviously the same thing as the one time I went to /r/bitcoin to drop a polite comment asking people not to start edit wars on a Linux distro wiki, because it will make us all look stupid to the outside world, and I immediately got permabanned by BashCo for "brigading", received wall-of-text mentally ill PM's accusing me of all manner of character sins, and then like a passive-aggressive bitch was informed that I would be singled out to not have the ban reversed simply because I didn't kiss his ass hard enough responding to the ban. /s

    For real, I've had borderline personality ex-gf's back in the early 20's that were more upstanding, reasonable individuals than Princess BashCo!
     
    Norway, throwaway, freetrader and 5 others like this.
  18. go1111111

    go1111111
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    124
    Likes:
    304
    reddit:
    go1111111
    When exactly did you scrape this info? And when exactly do you think the story broke? There are people in the /r/btc thread claiming that this was taken after the story broke, and no one in the thread has given any reason to doubt that.

    On a related note, is anyone here actually concerned about the antbleed thing? Just because you dislike Core doesn't mean Bitmain isn't also sketchy.
     
    Norway likes this.
  19. Bagatell

    Bagatell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    618
    Likes:
    891
    reddit:
    Bagatell_
    @go1111111 Bitmain have yet to be convicted of any wrong doing. Core on the other hand have repeatedly proven their nefarious nature.
     
    steffen, Norway, solex and 5 others like this.
  20. lunar

    lunar
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    639
    Likes:
    2,609
    @go1111111 just a copy from reddit. I agree, it's not objective, but at this point the circumstantial evidence, that there is a dedicated smear team of trolls and professional character assassins is overwhelming. It's the same MO every time, and effective because it takes magnitudes more energy to disprove than to create.

    Mike-blacklists, Gavin-CIA/CSW, XT-altcoin, Classic-amateur devs, Coinbase-evil/incompetent, BU buggy, untested game theory, Roger altcoin shill/doesn't understand code, Now antminer asicboost/antbleed.

    That list basically sums up the last 3 years of bitcoin censorship enforced development. There comes a point where a rational persons first response is to assume anything coming from these guys is a outright lie, mixed with just enough shit to stick. The crowd are easily manipulated, because bitcoin is such a huge leap in understanding that as xiggy says, the knowledge market is not fully developed, virtually no one understands all areas, myself, very much included.

     
    steffen, Norway, Tomothy and 8 others like this.