Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
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@cypherdoc

We need to start to see those gold chart comparisons again soon. We will quite likely pass 1oz on this run. Next stop after that is 1 BTC = 1 good delivery bar (or as I call them real money units, coins have been for us peasants, while bars have been for the bankers).
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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@rocks

That's JR's responsibility;)
 

rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
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He very clearly laid out the free market vs. centralized control argument, and why the free market path is always the better option.

This is a great way to position BU IMHO, as the free market alternative. BU will not cause large blocks, instead it will allow miners and users to determine the appropriate balance between fees and size through open market mechanisms, which are always better than a small group of controllers.

The small block sizers are arguing for centralized decision making over letting the market make decisions. This is the basic truth of the situation that is against bitcoin's principles, and the argument to keep banging them with. All of the technical arguments are just methods to side track and confuse the issue.

Edit: If this run keeps going we are going to run out of transaction space sooner than people realize, it would be great to have BU as a standing and ready alternative for when that day happens.
 

Justus Ranvier

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
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@rocks

That's JR's responsibility;)
You mean those old spreadsheet graphs?

I stopped making them after Mt Gox closed because obtaining continuous, accurate price information that extends back from the time when bitcoins first started trading until now is non-trivial.

At least, it's non-trivial compared to just pulling up bitcoincharts.com and doing a copy&paste.
 

theZerg

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Staff member
Aug 28, 2015
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Finex/coinbase now driving huobi... WTF? ppl trading after work / all night long?
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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I'm seeing those same 'ol can't sleep comments and complaints about not being able to get fiat to the exchanges fast enough from years past.
 
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Inca

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Staff member
Aug 28, 2015
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Hopefully just getting started.

18k shorts getting murdered. Volatility is going berzerk heading into the auction.

I made a post many moons ago on the other place about the price being held down by shorting, like a football pressed underwater. Someone has let go :)
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
5,257
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Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
 
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Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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@rocks

It really is "the argument to keep banging them with." It's the Achilles heel of the Core=Bitcoin position, the final boss's weak point, the grand chink in the armor, the one thing that from all their economically oblivious comments it is ever-clear that they have no idea how to defend against (not that there is any legit defense).



The best dark-arts way to defend is probably to continue with the "non-Core = altcoin" schtick, because people remain generally confused about how altcoins interface with the World Wide Ledger's network effects, but ultimately if centralized control is necessary to avoid the threat, as Rip Rowan said, Bitcoin has already failed as a concept.

This is why I think a final complete understanding of Bitcoin has to see it as purely a market-maintained phenomenon along lines of Schelling-like consensus, where the consistency of things like the issuance schedule are seen as the market expressing its desire for such consistency, not as the result of rules set in stone by Satoshi or any other revered Core figures (though the initial naive sense of "setting in stone" did give something solid for the Schelling consensus to coalesce around).

This Schelling-like market consensus is even better than setting in stone, because it functions like something set in stone for as long as that is critical to maintain Bitcoin's market value, yet can adapt - not by short-term market whim, because that is a value-damaging - if there is a true emergency need for it (which may be never, but who is smarter than the market to know?).

Also, with this clearly understood, the idea of decision-making by fork arbitrage may make more sense. The endgame for governance is 100% market-based decision-making, simply because at the valuations Bitcoin is headed for, nothing else would be solid enough to withstand the attacks. When the market cap is in the trillions, any other system of governance would be gamed instantly.
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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Which is why I keep saying that the Big Kahuna out there that Bitcoin should focus on is the Forex currency market of $5T/day. After all, Bitcoin by my definition is the most perfect of currencies/monies ever invented and we should fight to keep it that way.

That is the biggest market in the world which clearly is dominated by speculation and central bank "gaming". As much as they say they want to give forward guidance, in reality they need/have to continuously spring surprise on the market to keep the speculators at bay, if at all possible.

As evidence, how they were supposed to raise interest rates in October, which turned out to be a lie many of us saw right through. Also, how they killed the shorts in 2008-9 with TARP, bailouts, rate cuts, mark to model, European bailouts, back door deals, short selling bans, etc. The ultimate gaming.

Yes, as a result, Bitcoin is poised to suck the value from those markets.
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
5,257
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You mean girls do Bitcoin?
 
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bitsko

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
730
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I'm seeing those same 'ol can't sleep comments and complaints about not being able to get fiat to the exchanges fast enough from years past.
The average number of daily comments that 'china is waking up' looks to have gone parabolic as well, lol
 
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lunar

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Aug 28, 2015
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The now daily article from Zerohedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-03/bitcoin-suddenly-plunges

Actually ends with an interesting point.

With this kind of volatility, we are curious how long before a new generation of traders, the same who are currently watching paint dry in equities and FX courtesy of a seemingly endless short squeeze, migrate to this asset class which suddenly is boasting the best volatility on the planet, if only for the time being.
 
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Peter R

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Aug 28, 2015
1,398
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Off topic: does anyone know how to get in contact with DeathAndTaxes? I've always PM'd with him on BitcoinTalk but I'm not sure he checks that anymore.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
damn:



but still holding as this divergence is getting out of hand: