Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[freetrader]

At what point exactly can a SegWit miner begin to issue SW blocks?

 

[albin]

I am not saying its necessarily wrong to change your mind. I changed mine based on the DAO wars. I'm just saying it may be good to put it on the chart

There's no need to over-commit this much to the strategy of undermining a chart intended to mock your position by feigning to take it seriously.

 

[solex]

@albin The extreme consensus position which @jonny1000 relentlessly pushes is indeed feigned.
He perceives a partnership: Vitalik works away on the software, while Jonny works at ensuring said software has the largest economic landscape within which to take market share.

 

[theZerg]

Does Unlimited have its own testnet now? ...

And, in my eyes most importantly, do you have some calculation about the increase of time to set up a new node?

Its basically a very large block testnet
I don't understand your question. Are you posing a hypothetical, like how long to sync a year of 10mb blocks?

 

[Norway]

@theZerg
How large is a very large block? 200MB?

 

[Peter R]

@Norway: I think the biggest block yet is ~12MB but we're hoping to hit 100 MB before Milan.

 

[freetrader]

@HelloGuy : are you user "hello_guy" on the BU slack?

@HelloGuy : hello_guy on BU Slack claims that he's the same person as you.

I enquired here whether he is you, because he tried to get me "fired" from BU there because I announced the BTCfork project in the general channel once (*). Apparently, that is "too much".

He also tried to intimidate a fellow forum user from here, whom I shall not name at this stage, from participating in a fork, saying

[...] it will damage your reputation in China and damage the scaling movement in China. It only help Core to prove that they are right.

In China, without the censorship of Theymos, the scaling roadmap is always having a strong support. But they also have the intention to do it conservatively in a harmonious way. This kind of hard fork will not have the support from any opinion leaders in China. Maybe western guys can use this fork to play their own game, if the PoW is not attacked. Maybe freetrader should implement some kind of hybrid algorithm to prevent it from being 51% attacked.

I find it disturbing how someone claiming to support harmonious change is trying to divide East and West in the very same breath.

If this person is falsely claiming to be you, please let me know.

(*) the user tried to get me expelled behind my back - without contacting me first to ask me to not post announcements about BTCfork in the Slack. Nevermind that I wouldn't stop unless another member of BU in the channel told me they disapproved, because I don't know who "hello_guy" is, and I don't self-censor just because random people disapprove. That is why I had a lengthy chat with him about this afterwards in #random, the details of which he has my permission to publish in full, without modification.

Edit 2016-09-14: sigh, still no response. I've issued a re-request:
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-800#post-28475

 

[freetrader]

Since the following are my own responses to the above quotation by Slack user "hello_guy", I shall provide them. The leading sentence is a rebuttal to the user's repeated allegation that a minority fork is "owned" by me - a misconception of how free software works, imo.

8:51 PM freetrader @hello_guy : You are under some misconception that this fork is "owned" by me.
Nobody owns the Bitcoin protocol. Also not any opinion leaders in China or the West.
I advocated, since about March 2016, that a SHA256 hard fork should be attempted, before a HF that changes the POW.
The HF user requirements (https://github.com/BTCfork/bitcoinfork-collaborative-spec/blob/core/requirements.md) do not mandate a POW change, and I'll still work towards at least one fork option that provides this.
This means we seek harmonious change and upgrade of the Bitcoin block size for a long time.
I will not implement a hybrid fork, but others are free to do so.
If we are 51% attacked by Chinese miners, this would show they are not interested in harmonious change, and we would consider changing the POW if that occurs.

9:09 PM freetrader On the other hand, if Chinese miners are supportive, Bitcoin can easily be scaled to at least 2MB, probably 4MB in a short term, leading to renewed growth and vitality.

9:11 Our road map does not prevent technologies like the Lightning network - we simply want to ensure that Bitcoin is properly scaled on-chain.

9:13 That last part is also the reason I am a member of Bitcoin Unlimited.

9:14 I want to see Bitcoin grow freely, to reach its full potential to serve the many people of the world - not just a privileged few.

Source: BU Slack, #random, 9 Sep 2016

 

[freetrader]

This is not news, but good that someone is publishing on it:

Governments Around the World Deny Internet Access to Political Opponents

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602310/governments-around-the-world-deny-internet-access-to-political-opponents/

Full paper: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/353/6304/1151 (login required)

Discussion thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/523t3t/groundbreaking_new_study_of_the_global_internet/

---

Now this was news to me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/526yr8/shapeshift_removed_from_ios_app_store/

 

[freetrader]

The legalities of implementing MimbleWimble

(a kind of pre-showerthought)

IANAL, but this thought occurred to me:

What is the correct approach to include anonymous contributions like MimbleWimble that are just proverbially dropped off in front of the door?
Should any Bitcoin organization, e.g. Blockstream, attempt to patent this and add it to the defensive patent pool before implementing it?

If they didn't, how would they be able to be sure that there is not some sort of related submarine patent that they might be unaware of, and that could damage them - and Bitcoin - later on?

In general, it strikes me as risky to take on board to Bitcoin something which does not come with some form of license or waiver of rights.

What do you think?

 

[Justus Ranvier]

Governments Around the World Deny Internet Access to Political Opponents

Despite years of positioning their companies as free speech promoters, the tech elite of Silicon Valley haven't shown any reservations about using their companies as tools to advance their personal political agenda even when, or especially when, it goes against the preferences of their customers.

Of course, a case could be made that the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter are private sector companies in name only so maybe it's the same thing after all.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

Its basically a very large block testnet
I don't understand your question. Are you posing a hypothetical, like how long to sync a year of 10mb blocks?

Didn't know this.

Yes, this is my question. How long would it need to sync, if we had e. G. a year of 10mb blocks? Would be interesting to see tests / simulations.

 

[freetrader]

I'm waiting for another "Venzen Khaosan nails it" tweet from Adam Back.

Roger, I challenge you to public debate.

We can do it in Asia or SE Asia

I wonder if this guy is on parole or sth.

Archive of post (really, don't expect to find intelligent comments, this is from someone who thinks that his "consensus" toy is being broken):
http://archive.is/MGMLX

 

[Norway]

Didn't know this.

Yes, this is my question. How long would it need to sync, if we had e. G. a year of 10mb blocks? Would be interesting to see tests / simulations.

A year of uncompressed 10 MB blocks is about 500 GB. A 4 TB hard drive costs USD 150. So it should be possible to buy a pre loaded drive with eight years of 10 MB blocks for that price today

EDIT: And it could be resold to another person if you have your own hard drive and are only interested in a copy of the data...

 

[freetrader]

Those 8 years of 10MB blocks (4TB) are going to take you a little over 3hrs if you transfer them from a high-performance USB3.0 stick or external HDD (calculation based off effective sequential read speed of ~350Mbps). Writing them to such a disk would take about 5-6 hrs (~200Mbps).

4TB USB3.0 HDDs I saw were around EUR104 (Intenso Memory Center), £89.99 (Toshiba 4TB StorE Canvio) etc.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/storage/hard-drives-25-best-deals-in-the-uk-for-april-2014-1242806
(never mind the URL, the article claims its for September 2016)

@Christoph Bergmann : This would be an interesting job for a tech journal lab, to generate 4TB of semi-realistic blockchain data, starting from current blockchain and moving up to 10MB blocks (or bigger), and then see how long it takes a node to re-scan that, given current Bitcoin software tech.
I remember when reputable computer magazines did such actual testing on hardware/software
Perhaps sometime in the future we'll see some dedicated magazines for Bitcoin aficionados?

http://www.everythingusb.com/speed.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/fast-flash-drives.html

 

[Zarathustra]

Despite years of positioning their companies as free speech promoters, the tech elite of Silicon Valley haven't shown any reservations about using their companies as tools to advance their personal political agenda even when, or especially when, it goes against the preferences of their customers.

Of course, a case could be made that the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter are private sector companies in name only so maybe it's the same thing after all.

That's the market. Politics, organized violence, conspiracies, good and evil games are all part of the 'free' market. That's how the market always worked, "that's how it goes, and everybody knows", in contrast to the stories that are teached to the students at the several schools of economic theology.

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

And everybody knows that it's now or never
Everybody knows that it's me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah when you've done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But there's gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the beach of Malibu
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Oh everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows

 

[albin]

Of course, a case could be made that the likes of Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter are private sector companies in name only so maybe it's the same thing after all.

It stuns me how mundane the suppression of these corporations really turned out to be. For example, all this bad juju just to protect Sony from criticism over a massively-overhyped summer flop of an inconsequential motion picture that cynically used social-justice guilt as a marketing tactic.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

Those 8 years of 10MB blocks (4TB) are going to take you a little over 3hrs if you transfer them from a high-performance USB3.0 stick or external HDD (calculation based off effective sequential read speed of ~350Mbps). Writing them to such a disk would take about 5-6 hrs (~200Mbps).

4TB USB3.0 HDDs I saw were around EUR104 (Intenso Memory Center), £89.99 (Toshiba 4TB StorE Canvio) etc.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/storage/hard-drives-25-best-deals-in-the-uk-for-april-2014-1242806
(never mind the URL, the article claims its for September 2016)

@Christoph Bergmann : This would be an interesting job for a tech journal lab, to generate 4TB of semi-realistic blockchain data, starting from current blockchain and moving up to 10MB blocks (or bigger), and then see how long it takes a node to re-scan that, given current Bitcoin software tech.
I remember when reputable computer magazines did such actual testing on hardware/software
Perhaps sometime in the future we'll see some dedicated magazines for Bitcoin aficionados?

http://www.everythingusb.com/speed.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/fast-flash-drives.html

and @Norway

Yes, saving should be really no (big) problem, writing too, also downloading and transfering. This are minor issues. Verifying is the issu
I rebuilt the blockchain (currently ~80Gigabyte) at the weekend in ~5-6 hours. This mean for 1 year of 10mb blocks my computer - an i7-6700 - in 32 hours. So if we would have 10 mb blocks now, in a year I'd need less than 2 days to sync. One year later it'd needed 3-4 days. That's really not much (my old pc needed a week to sync, so blocksize is less important than cpu power).

So ... so even this seems to be no real issue.

 

[cliff]

-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1
$606.2| $1325.81 | $1327.7
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX) | BTCswap(Polo)
0.0355 % | 0.0694 %
-------------------------------------
HashRate: 1.67 EH/s
MarketCap: $9,622,406,059
-------------------------------------
GBTC | SPDR Gold Trust ETF
$92.01 | $126.71
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas| Copper | Crude (WTI)
1.61% | $208.1/lb | $44.97/barrel
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

On the road today - your regularly scheduled program will resume tomorrow.

 

[theZerg]

@Christoph Bergmann : This would be an interesting job for a tech journal lab, to generate 4TB of semi-realistic blockchain data, starting from current blockchain and moving up to 10MB blocks (or bigger), and then see how long it takes a node to re-scan that, given current Bitcoin software tech.
I remember when reputable computer magazines did such actual testing on hardware/software
Perhaps sometime in the future we'll see some dedicated magazines for Bitcoin aficionados?

http://www.everythingusb.com/speed.html
http://www.everythingusb.com/fast-flash-drives.html

I've got the code to do it now... https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/52e82w/optimizing_bitcoins_transaction_generation_code/

we'll see if it gets merged into BU. Personally, I think that making BU appeal to enterprises might help node counts...

I remember a post on Reddit I think about how bitcoind has all sorts of issues in enterprise use. Does anyone remember that and have a link?