Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

theZerg · Aug 3, 2016

Unfortunately in engineering to produce the best product one must choose the best option even if your ego gets bruised.

Justus Ranvier · Aug 3, 2016

@go1111111
You're allowing them to rewrite history.

Gavin and Mike started preparing for this hard fork in 2012, with the intentions of making it happen in 2013, well in advance of block congestion becoming emergency.

The current Core programmers are the ones who came in and disrupted this process. They are the ones who said that we had many years left before it would become an issue, and they were the ones who were proven utterly and completely wrong.

The reason there's been so much pressure for a hard fork is 100% the fault of the incompetence of the Bitcoin Core team. They were warned about this years in advance and they refused to admit they were wrong as the years of evidence accumulated in their faces.

Incompetence alone wouldn't be so bad however they are also so craven that they blame they are trying to shift the blame for their their failure away from themselves and onto the people who were right all along.

If Bitcoin is not able to fire them for incompetence, then they'll take the entire currency down with them.

xhiggy · Aug 3, 2016

I think many of the arguments between the camps, have to do with the misunderstanding of bitcoin as gold 2.0 when it's more like oil, who cares if different companies produce different types of oil, in different ways, it's still oil and it's useful at it's price. Core's actions are like America enacting 'call on OPEC', to preserve stability in a way that suits their interests, and allows them to develop their technology (fracking).

When bitcoin (and its forks?) is/are used globally, we are all richer, even if we don't own bitcoin.

jonny1000 · Aug 4, 2016

Justus Ranvier said:
The reason there's been so much pressure for a hard fork is 100% the fault of the incompetence of the Bitcoin Core team. They were warned about this years in advance and they refused to admit they were wrong as the years of evidence accumulated in their faces.

After Gavin's 20MB idea was "weakly" rejected by the Core "lead" in May 2015, had Gavin politely put forward a more moderate 2MB proposal, I am sure it would have been accepted. That is how I interpreted the word "weakly" at the time, it was signal and what the project lead indirectly indicated it meant afterwards. I am sure Gavin picked up on this signal.

However, unfortunately Gavin chose a different and somewhat spiteful path, of an increase in the limit to 8GB* and implemented in an antagonistic, confrontational and political way. I think the Core team was absolutely shocked when Gavin made that uncharacteristic move.
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go1111111 said:
I'm far from convinced that we'd have a block size increase by now if not for Classic, but I do think it would have increased the chances at least slightly.

I disagree with this. Gavin was very influential at the time and 2MB was certainly possible, with Gavin's backing.

* Note: Some of you may respond by saying the 8GB did not matter as it was not immediate. If it doesn't matter then why was it included, given the huge division it caused?

Justus Ranvier · Aug 4, 2016

jonny1000 said:
I think the Core team was absolutely shocked when Gavin made that uncharacteristic move.

You mean they had completely broken his will and would receive no further resistance to their hostile takeover.

Zarathustra · Aug 4, 2016

go1111111 said:
There is some truth to what Jonny is saying: the way that Classic was advocated pissed off a lot of Core folks, and they got into a mindset where they wanted to defeat Classic and Gavin.

Indeed. The way that Nelson Mandela's strategy was advocated pissed off a lot of the Apartheid Regime and its minions and henchmen, and they got into a mindset where they wanted to defeat the movement; by organized violence, never ending lies, censorship and all those tactics that sick rulers use until the Revolution blows them into the desert.
[doublepost=1470291829,1470290917][/doublepost]

jonny1000 said:
* Note: Some of you may respond by saying the 8GB did not matter as it was not immediate. If it doesn't matter then why was it included, given the huge division it caused?

Yes, it doesn't matter. Remove the limit completely (Bitcoin Unlimited) doesn't matter, because miners and nodes (the people) are able to decide themselves and don't need your Politbüro to decide for them.

jonny1000 · Aug 4, 2016

”Zarathustra” said:
because miners and nodes (the people) are able to decide themselves and don't need your Politburo to decide for them.

It is an open source piece of software, you can set any setting you like. There is no Poliburo. If you have a setting that is incompatible with other users, the coins you have will be incompatible with the rest of the network.

The same argument could be said about any necessary configuration setting required for compatibility/ user expectations:

· Why does the Politburo Bitcoin client have a hard coded block reward schedule, rather than letting the users decide?

· Why does the Politburo Firefox web browser follow some http settings, rather than letting the users decide if they want to be compatible with the rest of the web?

· Why does the Politburo elevator manufacturing company implement a specific setting by default on the door open button, instead they should let the clients decide what the button does?

· Why do the Politburo mobile phone companies configure the communication system such that its compatible with the mobile networks, instead the users should decide?

The users can decide, if you want your system to be incompatible, make it incompatible. Stop complaining about those who wish to use compatible systems.

Zarathustra · Aug 4, 2016

Yes, in theory there is no Politbüro, in practice there is. In theory, there is no difference between practice and theory, in practice there is.

In theory, there is no Politbüro in the SU and the US, in practice there is.
Why is it? Because of the masochists. They are the enablers of the sadists.

A society (in contrast to the community - Dunbar) is a symbiosis of sadists and masochists.

In other words: as long as you and alikes promote those totalitarian and feudalist rulers, vandals and liars, they will rule instead of being blown where they belong to: the desert.

And, btw: Do the main developers of the great open source projects support and contribute to the forum of a sick idiot?

cliff · Aug 4, 2016

-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------

BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1

~$580| $1,363.2| $1,368.4

-------------------------------------

GBTC | SPDR Gold Trust ETF

$96.6| $130.05

-------------------------------------

10YR Treas | Copper | Crude (WTI)

1.55%| $216.35/lb| $40.67/barrel

-------------------------------------
NEWS

FT on Bitfinex hack

GQ - Craig Wright

***

Humana now plans to cut back its Obamacare health insurance offerings (I mentioned Aetna earlier this week).

Bank of England Monetary Policy meeting minutes for August 2016

-------------------------------------
MISC

ETC .0042

XMR on a nice upward bounce .003+

BTC CoreDev Meeting Minutes

________________________
A.M. Tribute

freetrader · Aug 4, 2016

http://news.sky.com/story/bitcoin-heist-mastermind-in-163450k-giveaway-10522267

The user has already proven they hold the funds, as well as creating a "dead man's switch in case I get blackmailed/arrested/murdered".

This precaution means that the money would disappear forever into a "bitcoin eater" address after a certain period of time, irretrievable to anyone, including the user.

Interesting strategy, I can't help but wonder if it won't backfire.

albin · Aug 4, 2016

Maybe all of this will be resolved when people comprehend how stupid and illogical every single Flexcap proposal is, and finally feel the visceral outrage that such half-baked unworkable garbage is what all the stalling has been for?

cliff · Aug 4, 2016

Mid-day Volume Leaders on the stock exchanges:

-------------------------------------
MISC

ETC .0043
XMR on a nice upward bounce .003+

____________
P.M. Tribute

Dusty · Aug 4, 2016

Nice roundup of news cliff, thanks!

cliff · Aug 4, 2016

Thanks, @Dusty . I'm going to try and post this sort of thing w/ some regularity to keep the thread in line with its title and also to keep it open until @cypherdoc comes back. Warning - posts will be intermittent to non-existent starting tomorrow through Monday - but, we'll see what I can do from inside Yellowstone.

bluemoon · Aug 4, 2016

freetrader said:
http://news.sky.com/story/bitcoin-heist-mastermind-in-163450k-giveaway-10522267

Interesting strategy, I can't help but wonder if it won't backfire.

Looks as if the Bitfinex hacker may have made as much as $20m shorting btc on OKCoin. If so, the hacker can probably afford to give away the hacked bitcoin and/or lose it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4w6wj5/mass_shorts_at_okcoin_ahead_of_bitfinex_hack/

freetrader · Aug 4, 2016

(just a copy, it's not really news to anyone here, but you might find the site new, and there's a related Reddit announcement thread)

You may have read it on /r/btcfork or heard it already:

We're forking Bitcoin.

We're in the process of setting up an overview site for various forks at

-------> https://bitcoinforks.org <-------

How to Contribute?

Join the conversation on Reddit at https://reddit.com/r/btcfork
Chat in real time with us on IRC at #btcfork on Freenode: https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#btcfork
Vote on BTC Fork Constitution and features at https://btcfork.consider.it
Contribute code or testing at https://github.com/BTCfork

The image is also a link to the site

xhiggy · Aug 4, 2016

jonny1000 said:
After Gavin's 20MB idea was "weakly" rejected by the Core "lead" in May 2015, had Gavin politely put forward a more moderate 2MB proposal, I am sure it would have been accepted. That is how I interpreted the word "weakly" at the time, it was signal and what the project lead indirectly indicated it meant afterwards. I am sure Gavin picked up on this signal.

However, unfortunately Gavin chose a different and somewhat spiteful path, of an increase in the limit to 8GB* and implemented in an antagonistic, confrontational and political way. I think the Core team was absolutely shocked when Gavin made that uncharacteristic move.

You are re-writing history in your favor. We all are pretty invested in bitcoin, so it's very likely that our memories of past events are faulty, biased to our own conclusions. Especially when it comes to abstract things like interpreting signals being given off. It's not a productive mode of argument.
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freetrader said:
That sounds sweetly familiar:

Core is talking to the bankers, not the community

cliff · Aug 4, 2016

I ran across this old BCT thread from Aug 2010 today. I thought that I had read all of them, but this one must have gotten by me. Pretty interesting read considering it is 6 years old:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=779.0

Apologies if this thread has been posted before.

79b79aa8 · Aug 4, 2016

but i thought ... it COULD NOT happen.

good grief, look at that list of reasons.

cliff · Aug 4, 2016

Also, pretty sure the genesis block is a political statement and that bitcoin is a political currency. Something about "governments we verify"

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

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