Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
- Thread starter cypherdoc
- Start date
Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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The confusion has already happened. Since we've entered Fee Event dynamics, where the (in)action of a few have fundamentally changed the economic nature of what was Bitcoin, I kindly ask that you do not refer to the current longest sha256 chain as "Bitcoin".
The current chain is one of centrally managed economic minutia, with deliberately increasing on-chain friction, thereby decreasing the "moneyness" of the system. That is not what we all signed up for in 2011/12, so please refer to it as something else; people are indeed confused. Thanks.
The only thing that "came" from Greg was the crazy idea that the supply curve for block space could fall to identically zero, thereby never intersecting the demand curve. You and I discussed his arguments against my fee market paper at length at the time: he was saying that with something like weak blocks, orphaning risk that depends on the network transaction rates could be eliminated. I said they could only ever be reduced (unless there's only 1 miner).
What is true is that if it wasn't for Greg being so adamant that my fee market paper was "fundamentally flawed" I probably wouldn't have analyzed the effect of weak blocks on the fee market to such an extent. What I didn't know at the time of Greg's first critiques against the fee market equilibrium, was whether a technique like subchains would have a large or small effect on equilibrium transaction fees. I showed that it only has a small effect on transaction fees, even though it has a large effect on reducing orphan rates. This is what I think was one of the novel contributions of that paper. Something that Greg (and @jonny1000) hasn't even attempted to refute (I actually think neither of them have wrapped their head around my argument).
(Wow, check Greg's post history for yesterday/today--he's obsessed with me and is lying left, right and center. Funny timing given our article series on Xthin)
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my hunch on this S9 sale is that we're beginning to see the commodification of mining hardware that some of us have been talking about for a while driven by the flattening of the ASIC chip development. this is good news for ultimate decentralization of mining. yeah, KNC BK doesn't sound good and may centralize things more in the short term but i also think they should've stuck it out past the halving, esp given the price has gone up 21% since their filing. some are saying this S9 sale is a smokescreen but given @Jihan's seeming spurts of economic understanding, his work with BU nodes, his reported positions at the HK agreement, etc, i think he understands the importance of revenue diversification. if Bitmain can become the de facto leader of providing hardware to mining individuals across the globe, they will have broadened their reach, built a customer following, and in a sense short circuited the GFC by moving a portion of their hash overseas (assuming buyers point to Bitmain). i hope this trend continues of selling units to individuals:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4m6q6t/bitmain_s9_sold_out_after_24_hours/
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4m6q6t/bitmain_s9_sold_out_after_24_hours/
- Aug 19, 2015
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Guys, if you need to communicate something specific to me, please use PM instead of summoning me like a genie in the middle of a 600-page thread. That way I can be properly notified of the issue via email.
Regarding Tor, I don't believe it's specifically banned (although certain nodes might be). Does anyone here access the forum via Tor?
In the case of Tom Zander though, what additional benefit does Tor have if we can link his identity to his posts?
never use line graphs. use candlesticksIs that a bullish pennant I see forming?
I used to call it a "dragon's head" before I knew the technical term. Saw it a lot in 2013.
for instance, look at the same graph here:
the line graph only shows the days close, altho i'm not sure what bitcoinity is doing there. candlesticks show more information in that they show the days open, close, and the days max and min price swings. the body counts more than the wicks in evaluating almost all patterns including a bull flag. note in the Tradeblock chart how the bodies (bodies count more than the wicks) are grinding higher (which is more bullish than a flag), if anything, and not demonstrating the daily swing highs and lows which typify a flag formation as seen in the small triangle of just a few weeks before.
[doublepost=1464883112,1464882343][/doublepost]everybody's getting on the "digital gold" band wagon:
- Dec 16, 2015
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Been doing a little Sztorc reading today, and this struck me as quite a coherent explanation of the Bitcoin maximalist mindset:
What I'd like to mention at this point is that in this forum, I've mostly seen people debate the merits of approaches from various angles (technical, economical, even political). I think the above rationalization for loyalty-based suppression of other currencies based on gentlemen's agreements should be foreign to honest and integral development of a global electronic currency.
It inevitably leads to categorization of hard forks as "attacks" as evidenced by the @jonny1000 's catechistic table (sorry but I'll call it yours until you link to the source).
Not only does it present the need to attack all others - not exactly a good way to inspire trust in the money - but in doing so it actively tries to enforce a currency monopoly. Effectively it is proposing that people must use Bitcoin against their free will. This doesn't fly in the real world, that should be obvious.
- Source: Against Crowdsales, Paul Sztorc
What I'd like to mention at this point is that in this forum, I've mostly seen people debate the merits of approaches from various angles (technical, economical, even political). I think the above rationalization for loyalty-based suppression of other currencies based on gentlemen's agreements should be foreign to honest and integral development of a global electronic currency.
It inevitably leads to categorization of hard forks as "attacks" as evidenced by the @jonny1000 's catechistic table (sorry but I'll call it yours until you link to the source).
Not only does it present the need to attack all others - not exactly a good way to inspire trust in the money - but in doing so it actively tries to enforce a currency monopoly. Effectively it is proposing that people must use Bitcoin against their free will. This doesn't fly in the real world, that should be obvious.
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Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 237
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@cypherdoc - Nice comment from Naval.
Regarding everyone getting on the "digital gold" train....not Rickards of course!
Regarding everyone getting on the "digital gold" train....not Rickards of course!
lunar
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 1,001
- 4,290
I've seen it before... in adam backs presentation from his talk Prague.
Actually, continuing @Zangelbert Bingledack theory it might be interesting to produce a bitco.in version of this table and see how the differences play out. Perhaps half of this battle can be won by simply understanding the vocabulary. We need some formal definitions.
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Norway
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- Sep 29, 2015
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79b79aa8
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2015
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some dissheveled comments:
- bitcoin may indeed be seen as a self-fulfilling prophecy. also, if you wish, as a self-deploying mechanism. from such a perspective, it is simply and literally awesome, the harnessing of some necessary forces, something the likes of which we have never encountered before or are likely to encounter again. from such a perspective, all this worry about fighting back "attacks" and defending the line with one's life and so on seems hopelessly futile, a failure to properly take in the dimensions of what is involved. the system will march on, propelled by huge forces, which will periodically wash away these puny tactical battles - and certainly our little banter in the blogosphere. of course, it may not march the way you initially thought it would. deal with it, and still try to come out on top.
- which brings us to @jonny1000 using adam back's definitions for forks -- LOL --, insisting about extreme consensus, complaining how people here are radical, claiming the right for his preferred party the use of the word 'bitcoin'. dude: this is a tsunami, and the more time nullc wastes hectoring people and adam3us using sophistry to influence the network for the benefit of their VC investors, the quicker something else will overtake them.
- i don't think KnC is pulling any plugs, certainly not before the halving. they simply are preemptively restructuring their debt.
- BTW, we were at $270 on october 20, 2015. BTC price has doubled on a steady rise in less than a year.
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more digital gold pumping. i like it :
Blockchain needs a native digital asset
https://www.finextra.com/videoarticle/1241/blockchain-needs-a-native-digital-asset
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the market is seeing thru that to a time when they will be displaced.
:Blockchain needs a native digital asset
https://www.finextra.com/videoarticle/1241/blockchain-needs-a-native-digital-asset
[doublepost=1464889376,1464888769][/doublepost]
the market is seeing thru that to a time when they will be displaced.
Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 237
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@cypherdoc - and this:
http://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ark-invest-bitcoin-new-asset-class/
"Professional" reports like that are quite legitimizing to wider circles of investors. Great to see.
http://www.coindesk.com/coinbase-ark-invest-bitcoin-new-asset-class/
"Professional" reports like that are quite legitimizing to wider circles of investors. Great to see.
jbreher
Active Member
- Dec 31, 2015
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Yes - I'm glad my explanation was comprehensible.I really like this idea. Wish I had known about it before I posted Part 2 of 5
Is this the way it's normally presented?
We usually extend the x axis out to capture the furthest outlier. I can't tell from your presentation whether or not there are data points beyond that in the chart. Of course, I seem to remember that your data set was on the order of thousands, so vanishingly small data points (e.g., 0.99999999) would probably be noise at this point.
For months the forums were consistently unreachable. Socket time out. Today I tried again when someone linked me to your reply, and it works. Its reachable
Maybe just from this (US) tor-exit. But I made an account now. If I stop logging in, it likely stopped working...In regards to your question of what benefit Tor has for people like me that are not trying to be anonymous. There are plenty of reasons to encrypt all your traffic on the internet. I suggest you talk to the tor developers if that doesn't sound reasonable. It is in essence about basic security and privacy.
Take a look at this post if you are curious. I highly recommend mirroring your site on the darknet (I mirror most of mine there).
http://gizmodo.com/facebook-just-created-a-custom-tor-link-and-thats-aweso-1653274659
man, /u/nullc seriously losing it. such wild accusations. maybe he's referencing my joke suggestion of forking his nLocktime Blockstream payments from Classic? lol. i was never serious about that:
Greg should go work for Etherium, He'll have a sympathetic audience. he speaks as if cloning is some how steeling but he's also quite insistent on the notion that it's not his idea when confronted with any conflicts of interest and he's just building on it (or should we say GMax is also cloning Lightning - the OOS idea)
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Such faith I hope I can hang in there.more digital gold pumping. i like it
yes, Bitcoin is so powerful that it can tolerate corrupt ppl in high places for now; kore dev. eventually they will be washed away as it has become clear as day that they are both morally and financially corrupt the more they talk.
the market is seeing thru that to a time when they will be displaced.
xhiggy
Active Member
- Mar 29, 2016
- 124
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Core fans are being subject to waves of bamboozlement from Greg.
Totally worth limiting bitcoin, because I got to use the word bamboozlement online
Totally worth limiting bitcoin, because I got to use the word bamboozlement online
Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 237
- 884
No, Greg (and Adam for that matter) should go work for R3. If one fundamentally believes that permissionless PoW mining cannot work via natural market-forces, the conclusion of that belief is that all chains/ledgers must have aspects of the economic parameters centralized in order for the system to function properly. Thus, go build private chains if that's your belief.
Working on Bitcoin while believing that mining is a "Tragedy of the Commons" situation is inconsistent at best, and an actual attack on real Bitcoin at worst.