Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

cypherdoc

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freetrader

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@cypherdoc: Good read, but whatever the truth of the matter, the sad fact is that the timing of this announcement during Satoshi Roundtable + the media coverage both of these will get means Bitcoin will be negatively associated by ordinary folks reading about this in the mainstream media.

It'll be: either Bitcoiners are the evil spawn of the Bilderbergers (in the mind of those accepting this) or people will think Bitcoiners are a bunch of loonie conspiracy theorists (for skeptics).

Either way, I think it's the most massive attack on Bitcoin yet.

Let us be strong.
 
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freetrader

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I've got my sub-ether on standby.

Does this have *any* correlation with the knight's armor symbolism all over the roundtable show, or is that an allusion to something else I'm not getting.

I'm a bit too young I guess... :)
 
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AdrianX

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This is huge news. It's like a dream I'm constantly overwhelmed by what's happening. This Bitcoin thing must be worth quite a bit.

I'm feeling overwhelmed once again. The first time I got a grip on Bitcoin it hit me this thing's going to be huge. It seemed like such a long shot I only invested $20 and my time, after it went over $30 I put my money where my thoughts were and started buying form $2, buy Lots is all I thought. Then it hit $10 I began to question my assumptions so I sold out.

None the less when it hit $100 again I had this same feeling I'm having now.

I knew it was going to go up in price rapidly so why was I feeling shocked and unprepared when it happened.

Likewise I have known that TPTB are not going to take this bending over it's a huge opportunity for them too, it's just for them it's different they can't buy all the coins because the value doesn't come from owning them It comes from distributing them optimally and owning an appropriate amount, and obviously having control.

So I'm feeling a little unprepared again, I've known this day would come and I'd thought the solutions was simpl. The day Bitcoin is hijacked we fork and carry on, but it's always a great opportunity to see ones thinking in hindsight. It's not that simple and bitcoin governance shohld have been anticipated and acted on earlier, it's crazy we've let it come this far.
 
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Bagatell

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As a card carrying conspiracy theorist I'm very pleased to see the label is not blinding people to the dangers here.
 
To be fair, I think AXA has invested in many companies ... I don't think it helps to raise "bilderberg"-conspiracies. Even if it may be true (i don't think so), those who complained about bilderbergers have never ever won anything. They just lost, cause history made it that everybody who cries "bilderberg" is considered by the majority as crazy.

About all the Blockstream-Thing imho the best explanation is:

Blockstream was founded by some core devs on the premise that Bitcoin can't scale and that this is an opportunity to sell sidechains. So it's just consequently that the core devs, who gathered under their new CTO gregory maxwell, don't waste time to try the impossible thing to scale bitcoin.

I mean, even if all the core devs hired by blockstream are angels with the brightest hearts and heaviliy invested in bitcoin with time-locked wallets and even if their contracts says that bitcoin will always be more important than blockstream and so on - this is a situation like a huge iceberg waiting on its titanic.

It's nearly impossible to route around conflicts of interests and group thinking. And it's completely insane that saying this is considered as "conspiracy" thinking and FUD.
[doublepost=1456659666][/doublepost]And, regarding the core devs cto:

He's really communicating with iCEBREAKER from bitcointalk, hopping about the stick iB holds and supporting him in his ongoing rage against everybody who's smarter the him.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330553.msg14002526#msg14002526

can't believe this.

I answered in the thread, but it's moderated by iCEBREAKER and my post was deleted. so for the fun I post it here

[quote author=Bergmann_Christoph]
WTF?
Did you, Gregory Maxwell, a person in the center of the most important and controversal debate of bitcoin, really give iCBREAKER the gift of an answer? Did you really jump over the stick he's holding and support him in his ongoing, neverstopping rages against everyone whose opinion on bitcoin exceeds his narrow mind? iCEBREAKER is known as a french nazi and you don't need to have more than a rare look into bitcointalk to realize that he is not a man of arguments, but of insults and that people like him are the reason our community is splitted and we are poisened to fork without a consensus.

That said I'm really disappointed of your rejection of thinblocks. It significantly reduces bandwith consumtion of nodes and eliminates the spikes through the block propagation which exceed regular consumption by up to 1000%. How can you ignore a feature like this?

Unlimited is very clear that they didn't write core but only modified the software. That nevertheless makes their new client the best bitcoin client available.
[/quote]
 
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Bagatell

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Cristoph Bergman said:
I don't think it helps to raise "bilderberg"-conspiracies. Even if it may be true (i don't think so), those who complained about bilderbergers have never ever won anything. They just lost, cause history made it that everybody who cries "bilderberg" is considered by the majority as crazy.
I'm disappointed with this. Forget the "conspiracy theory" slur. Consider the facts and the actions of those involved. The Bilderbergers are at the very apex of our society and the people involved pretty much run our world. They could hardly be making a worse job of it IMHO. If they were doing even a half way decent job I doubt Satoshi would have felt the need to quote the chancellor in the genesis block.
 

dlareg

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Feb 19, 2016
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I am very much on the fence about the Bilderberg post and think that angle is huge can of worms. Now don't get me wrong as I am a long-time student of the hidden workings and commonly entertain ideas far more "radical" than this. And factually the post to me is not in dispute as far as the BBG existing, it's membership, AXA, whatever. And I will further qualify my statements by saying there are many ways to approach this topic.

However, I see us involved in sort of a battle of ideas here. There is a core group of people advocating one approach, and another group advocating the opposite. There are many people who are just going to follow tide of public opinion, sadly.

The off-chain scaling group knows this well and has been mounting a well orchestrated disinfo campaign which has been very successful for both these "followers" and for the people just getting into Bitcoin who stumble into the controlled Reddit. Admittedly they are playing hard ball and it has been working.

So the question for us is strategically what communication makes best sense. Part of the disinfo campaign revolves around the usual technical BS we are all familiar with, but also "conspiracy" smear, the "angry" slur, and "criclejerk" slur and whatnot. Obviously we are not phased by such weak attacks. But for the general public as a whole, these attacks are quite successful.

This particular post was not extremely tactful or sensitive to the average Joe's extreme resentment for conspiracies. And since this whole refusal to scale to me seems like a conspiracy in itself, are we best not sticking with a more professional, palatable approach for the common person? The headline was quite sensationalistic with "Blockstream is now controlled by the Bilderberg Group - seriously!"

And if we are going to get into conspiracies, many would say the BBG is a front organization for deeper and darker levels of control. And then really Bitcoin and Blockstream would be a tiny fraction of what we would be concerning us anyway. I am not arguing the post is wrong, or the money is not tainted, or the money has no influence. Or that the powers that be want Bitcoin dead or neutered. But I doubt Adam Back has conference calls with the head of the Bilderberg Group to talk about the destruction of Bitcoin as the headline suggests.

These things may be best served by the conspiracy department and not by the block size increase department and the dev team diversity department.

So to me this all seems like part of the elaborate smear/disinfo campaign to paint us all as a bunch of freaks and to continue to play the war of public perception. The post itself literally came out of nowhere quickly generating hundreds of up votes with what looked like conveniently placed PR operative accounts and massive downvoting/upvoting. To me it just seemed like a really, really fishy post. And there are already many Classic people complaining about it online, or on Slack. So obviously it is having some negative effects. Those who understand the post are not our audience, as they already get it. So all we are doing is harming our message.

We all know what's going on here. But I would not go up to my boss, or my inlaws, or my accountant and start telling them about 9/11 or the Bilderberg Group. So while I am fine reading posts like that and far crazier posts, I am not sure it is putting our best foot forward in the PR game. Thoughts? Hopefully I don't sound like an apologist here. I am happy to entertain other thoughts on this.
 

freetrader

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@dlareg : with you on this. The fact that Bitcoin has come where it has today is indicative that carrying on the work brings good results.

Let's focus on the conflicts of interest which are becoming clearer now. At some stage these conflicts will matter to businesses, not only to individuals, and then perhaps there will be more resolution.

But in the meantime, improving Bitcoin in the ways envisioned by its creator(s) seems the most effective course of action.

Addendum: One more argument for why it's unproductive to focus on such theories. They do not directly relate to the day-to-day problems that get ordinary people excited about Bitcoin. What appeals about Bitcoin is its pertinence to grass-roots issues that people have (protecting their money against inflation, reducing the barriers to commerce and trade, gaining financial independence etc.). I'll get off this soapbox now.
 
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dlareg

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And so it begins o_O

I'm not sure how "radical" the tech journalists are, but I am guessing not much. The power of disinfo. Now any charges made will look foolish and be written off. Perhaps I overreact.

PR counterplay will be to call this what is it--a raid and a setup. They're turning up the pressure as expected. Vigilance always!