Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Erdogan]

Large block bounty effort:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/badass-large-block-bounty-the-great-blocksize-war-of-2016-the-peoples-offensive-100001-season-i-fun.817/

 

[Mengerian]

i liked most of what @jtoomim had to say in there. i think he has the proper vision.

Yes, I agree.

the part i don't agree with @jtoomim is his 75% chance estimation of survival that a CoreCoin with changed POW would have. i think it's more closer to 0%.

I understood the 75% to refer to the odds of it persisting on a technical level. But it seems he agrees that economically it would be essentially dead and have no value.
[doublepost=1453408416][/doublepost]@jtoomim on what defines Bitcoin:

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:41:39:bitcoin is the currency that everybody uses
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:41:45:that's what makes it what it is
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:41:52:that's what defines it as not just another altcoin
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:41:55:it is the default coin
1|Guy Corem:2016-01-20 09:41:56:But who defined what Bitcoin is ?
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:42:13:we did
...
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:42:14:by using it
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:42:31:satoshi just wrote a program and then talked about it
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:42:35:the users made bitcoin a thing
...
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:43:02:and bitcoin has stood the test of many altcoins, over and over, because bitcoin is what people accept
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:43:16:there can only be one

...

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 09:43:42:except for a few diehards who want to stay true to something or other that they think is more important than actually being able to use the currency.

Did he see @Peter R's diagram?

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:21:25:the economics of a currency is the point you're missing
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:21:58:the currencies are like a bowl of water balanced on a rope. if it starts to tip one side, then the water flows to that side, and it tips faster.
...
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:22:08:users are the water. they flow to where the other users are.

 

[rocks]

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:26:16:by the way, we've had a lot of companies donating developers to us recently

This is what is needed, the community needs to invest time and money in development, not a single company.

Great to hear it is starting now. I mentioned this before that Maxwell's behavior likely drove away many potential developers. If the fork happens and these potential developers are welcomed we might see a lot of development towards real scaling solutions.

 

[Zarathustra]

@Zarathustra From your linked post.

I think I understand the point he (Dr. Paul C. Martin.) is trying to make. It just doesn't seem to describe the whole picture. The idea that ungoverned humans won't need money seems wrong. He claims the only reason for money is to facilitate tribute to a mafia (or similar). Agreed this is probably the origin of modern money, but it without the state it also serves the function as a voluntary tally stick.

Since ungoverned communities (anarchy) were self-sufficient they didn't use money/market/economy.
The destruction of the anarchist communities by organized violence led to tribute, the very first debt and real money. He claims that there is no such thing as a barter economy historically, and that the debt economy began with the collectivization of the communities into societies by organized violence, and for that purpose the metal as a tribute was collected. There is no growing economy among ungoverned tribes in the rain forest. Zero growth in 10'000 years.
They don't need growth, they don't want growth, they don't produce growth, because they are not forced to. It is the citizen who produces growth, but the citizen is no more a human. He is a slave of the state. The economy (homo oeconomicus) has been a state bastard from the very beginning.

 

[Justus Ranvier]

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:26:16:by the way, we've had a lot of companies donating developers to us recently

Many Bitcoin companies are in full revolt against Blockstream and Bitcoin Core. Recently they've been asking around for suggestions for qualified developers they can hire and donate to Bitcoin Classic.

 

[AdrianX]

The block size debate portrayed in gender roles (If Core was a male in the 30's)

 

[cypherdoc]

Did he see @Peter R's diagram?

that's exactly what i thought
[doublepost=1453410306][/doublepost]

Many Bitcoin companies are in full revolt against Blockstream and Bitcoin Core. Recently they've been asking around for suggestions for qualified developers they can hire and donate to Bitcoin Classic.

that's great news.
[doublepost=1453410615][/doublepost]

The block size debate portrayed in gender roles (If Core was a male in the 30's)

except the guy states that the women grow long hair and beards! who's that sound like?

 

[AdrianX]

@cypherdoc I LOLed when was sent that video, not sure it relates entirely but I thought the authoritarian attitude was spot on when it comes to Core.

 

[TrevinHofmann]

I'm on mobile and accidentally voted "no" on the poll.

 

[cypherdoc]

@TrevinHofmann

you can change your vote

 

[TrevinHofmann]

Ah, I see. Thanks!

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm on mobile and accidentally voted "no" on the poll.

Shame on you. You will be stoned, by Andrew.

 

[rocks]

1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:08:06:and what we're realizing now is that users and miners do have that power
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:08:11:and the core devs are afraid
1|Guy Corem:2016-01-20 10:08:22:Why do you use this term ?
1|Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 10:08:27:they're threatening doom and gloom, because fear is the only tool they have left

Fear may be the only tool they have left, and from scanning reddit today it is one they are deploying with full force.

But fear is also the least likely emotion to work with people into Bitcoin. Bitcoin is fundamentally about rebelling against the system. People do not rebel out of fear, but out of a desire to fight for a better future.

 

[tynwald]

the solution is not to inflate the money supply its to curb the rate of consumption.

that implies a very large decrease in GDP growth, if not an outright depression for currently debt-funded economies.

 

[rocks]

No this won't backfire on core /s

 

[AdrianX]

that implies a very large decrease in GDP growth, if not an outright depression for currently debt-funded economies.

We are on average over consuming resources at an estimated 100%, the system is unsustainable in the long run, the problem is exponential growth (simplistically we're working to compensate for inflation in the money supply to stay flush)

I'm not implying anything other than a good portion of last 45 years of malinvestment may turn out to have been a bad idea. It looks ugly from the top down but the vast majority who live day to day wont see any change if that investment unravels.

 

[solex]

Thanks to all who voted for the BU officers, and to @Lee Adams and @TrevinHofmann for their competition.

This election was a quiet affair, but if the next ones are a major event then BU will have become a major success in the meantime. The goal before then is to get BU's share of the full node count into the region of 50% or more, way beyond the current healthy start of 2%.

I'm getting excited at the potential of @Peter Tschipper's Xtreme thinblocks (Xthin!) to really attract users. Likely the miners will move to Classic in the short-term but non-miners should be looking seriously at BU. The user-agent info will feed into a public billboard for what BU node owners think about the block-limit.

We have a number of technical BUIPs which are ready, or nearly ready for membership vote. In co-ordination with @theZerg I will get these open for voting. These will require signature verification and perhaps the work that @awemany and Trevin have done can be used to make this process more efficient for everyone. I am hoping for high turnouts

I am not going to do any Maxwellian roadmaps. Where BU goes in the future is up to the membership to decide alone.

 

[rocks]

Read this exchange between Wang Chun and core.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7388#issuecomment-173563835

When this thread was exiled from BTC, I used to think core might be billiant manipulators of social media. That they figured out how to bury public discourse against their moves, but would later engage with people that mattered in a reasonable manner.

I now see that was wrong, core is simply comprised of children who do not know how to engage and discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Here they are TELLING F2Pool what to think about RBF and refusing to acknowledge F2Pool's concerns. Basically they are treating F2Pool the same as those they banned from /r/Bitcoin.

F2Pool
Could you please tell me which wallet has been ready to warn users for potential RBF transactions? What the average user without much Bitcoin knowledge can do when he/she see this warning?

sipa
It's only an issue for merchants who accept 0-conf transactions, not wallets (who typically don't count unconfirmed transactions from the outside as spendable anyway). Several payment processors and analysis services (which aim to make 0-confirmations safer) already treat non-max nSequence as unsafe (and they should, regardless of whether opt-in RBF gets adopted or not).If anyone feels they need more time to deploy this, or knows of use cases that aren't mentioned above, I'd very much like to hear this, and reconsider. I will gladly admit we could have done a better job at communicating, but please don't claim things like "RBF is theft"; this is a well-considered and (according to many) necessary feature.

F2Pool
So you admit nobody has yet been ready for opt-in RBF but deploy it in the next release IMHO this is no better than force a hard fork without consensus

 

[Justus Ranvier]

that implies a very large decrease in GDP growth, if not an outright depression for currently debt-funded economies.

The transition from alcohol poisoning to sobriety does involve hangovers, yes.

Every additional drink pushes the recovery from the hangover further out into the future.

 

[cypherdoc]

don't forget to vote the poll at the top
[doublepost=1453416341][/doublepost]Support for Bitcoin Classic (#517)

We are getting near super-majority consensus for Bitcoin Classic. With a super majority a clean, hard fork to the 2 MT block size limit will be possible, solving the issues with delays in transactions and increasing fees. Bitcoin became popular as a vehicle to transfer funds to any other user anywhere in the world quickly and free or virtually free of cost. Let's protect that quality until Bitcoin achieves widespread adoption worldwide. Eventually fees should become part of the equation, but if they enter too quickly, the attraction to new users might fade and Bitcoin will not be as strong. Let's support Classic!

https://mining.bitcoin.cz/proposal/detail/517/
[doublepost=1453416841,1453415898][/doublepost] wangchun commented 10 hours ago
ACK

RBF is steal. This PR should be merged asap to prevent potential financial loss.


https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/7388#issuecomment-173563835