Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Fatman3002

Active Member
Sep 5, 2015
189
312
married man: i'm here for a quicky
call girl: no problem
married man: you do take Bitcoin, right?
call girl: of course
married man: ok, sent
--awkward silence--
married man: well? let's get on with it.
call girl: you gotta wait 10 minutes
married man: you said you do quickies!!?
call girl: not since RBF
married man: what the hell is that?
call girl: ask Peter Todd[/ QUOTE]
married man: do you mind if I lube myself up while we wait?
call girl: go ahead, I'll watch

It's all about smelling the roses
 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
@Aquent it not that XT made a mistake. The improvement proposal 101 was released on the assumption that Bitcoin was in fact a decentralized system.

What we learned is, it's not, it's actually quite centralized, XT was a victim of attack for supporting BIP101.

The idea of launching BU by using Core is 100% political. To illustrate BU is pro having a free market to support the fee market.

By using Core BU is not supporting a free fee market, it's actually supporting Code's fee market where Core Developers have already set a minimum fee per transaction. Both Core and BU will not broadcast a transaction with a very low user defined fee, nor will Core or BU broadcast a transaction with old cons and no fee.

XT on the other hand is supporting a free fee market by allowing the miners to choose a minimum fee.

This has been my experience using BU and I've confirmed it is consistent with Core but not XT.
Interesting observation in terms of this difference between XT and BU, I was not aware that this was the case, maybe at some point in the future we could suggest that this is changed through a BUIP.
 
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sickpig

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
926
2,541
@AdrianX

Do you care to summarize what are core/BU min fee policies?

From what I remember there are a few parameter that determine lower fee policies:

- minRelayFee

- dust definition

- recently they're trying to remove reserved blocks space for old coins (dunno if it is already merged in 0.12)

I'm sure that there's more than that.

Nevertheless I agree that we should let the market determine what's the equilibrium even for the lower part of the fee spectrum.

We just have to give a way to the participants to decide what is the best course of actions individually rather imposing a top down policy.

After all this is actually what BU is doing for the max block size.

Lastly, it is interesting to notice that even in this case, as for the block size, the centralized policy was/is introduced as a fence against DoS attacks.
 

rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
586
2,284
married man: i'm here for a quicky
call girl: no problem
married man: you do take Bitcoin, right?
call girl: of course
married man: ok, sent
--awkward silence--
married man: well? let's get on with it.
call girl: you gotta wait 10 minutes
married man: you said you do quickies!!?
call girl: not since RBF
married man: what the hell is that?
call girl: ask Peter Todd[/ QUOTE]
married man: do you mind if I lube myself up while we wait?
call girl: go ahead, I'll watch

It's all about smelling the roses
Parts of the escort and other similar industries are slowly going all crypto.

Back page ads are now 100% crypto because of the gov blocking visa and MC transactions. Governments around the world are clamping down on transactions they do not like more and more.

But instead of this all going to bitcoin, it is including other forms of crypto as well. Back page for example takes litecoin and dogecoin also. If fees go up to even $0.30 a transaction you can be sure these ads will be paid for in litecoin not bitcoin. And that is how bitcoin slowly loses its dominant position.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/114796/backpagecom-adult-section-goes-100-crypto

The cap has to be raised soon.
 

Inca

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 28, 2015
517
1,679
@rocks:

This.

The longer this debate rages on with inactivity at the heart of the project the more you have to feel this is a deliberate attempt to subvert and strangle the project.

If bitcoin is to be a global currency or payment system then they need to literally get out of the way now. Perhaps they should offer the network a choice. And release two versions of core. Both official, one with large block support and one without. Let the network decide. That would be win-win for them as they still get to 'control' the reference client but also listen to the people who actually give the currency value.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
it's laughable how the UST mkt is moving in the face of "Yellen dictat".

what we're going to get is an entire unmasking of Fed and central policy in the face of overwhelming market conditions. during economically calm times of low volatility, the Fed can nudge mkts in certain directions with it's one size fits all printing hammer. but in times of speculative excess, the free mkt will raise it's ugly head and reject the Fed's machinations and hubris. Yellen is trapped; either continue her rate rising in the face of plunging stock mkts worldwide, or act according to her bankster mandate and provide USD reserve currency liquidity to not only the US but the rest of the world. after all, it's her responsibility to do so in a Triffen's Dilemma. i can't find the article i read yesterday that characterized it properly; what we're witnessing is a huge lack of USD liquidity worldwide to prop up the majority of the world's USD loan base. if this USD denominated debt is allowed to continue to contract, we are going to see accelerating deeeflation, the likes of which is going to make 2008 look like a walk in the park. this is why i'm so bearish on the USD right now, in contrast to all the USD bulls like Kyle Bass looking for it to go higher. sure, he's probably smarter than me (certainly richer than me), but i'm concerned that the USD has been going up since July 2014 (when i called it's bottom). to me, it looks like it is going to do a double top and plunge in the expectation that Yellen is going to have to print according to Triffen to prevent a catastrophe. not only that, all financial crises are a little different in that in 2008-2009, the USD paradoxically went UP along with UST's in a very fortunate scenario for the US at the time. today is different; the US has conducted 7 y of corrupt policy in the form of QE for banksters to bail them out of their bad speculative investments and enrich them to levels of economic disparity that haven't existed since 1929. the monetary base has expanded from $800B to $4.2T, a 5-6x increase. that is pure bullshit. and my income, as an industry, has only gone down. arguably, i am doing more of God's work than The Squid ;)

mkts are likely to continue to go down, in a whipsaw like fashion, into the next several FOMC meetings and be accompanied by initial whimpers from Wall St banks crescendoing into demands and threats of blowing up the world if the Fed doesn't resume QE, or at least postpone further rate rises. afterall, The Squid needs to be fed.


[doublepost=1452359881,1452359108][/doublepost]check out the topping formation. it almost looks like the $DJI roll:


[doublepost=1452360817][/doublepost]here's the USD ramp since July 2014:

 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
here's where i read that yesterday:

[doublepost=1452362224][/doublepost]
married man: i'm here for a quicky
call girl: no problem
married man: you do take Bitcoin, right?
call girl: of course
married man: ok, sent
--awkward silence--
married man: well? let's get on with it.
call girl: you gotta wait 10 minutes
married man: you said you do quickies!!?
call girl: not since RBF
married man: what the hell is that?
call girl: ask Peter Todd[/ QUOTE]
married man: do you mind if I lube myself up while we wait?
call girl: go ahead, I'll watch

It's all about smelling the roses
call girl: go ahead and lube. take your time though.
married man: why? you said 10 minutes.
call girl: cuz Poisson.
 
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VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
I feel somewhat honored by being called out as one of the most prominent "big block shills". Nice to know that my writing has had a noticeable impact on some people.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318519.0

He implied that my alias could be a clue towards my real identity as a shill. I explained what my name meant on that thread, thought I would cross post that here. :)

VeritasSapere said:
I can explain what my alias means. It is latin, I am also a history buff as well as having a political philosophy background. Veritas means truth and it was also the name of the main character in the movie "V for Vendetta", the mask that he wears has now become a symbol for the cypherpunk movement and anonymous movement as well. Sapere is a bit harder to pin down in terms of meaning, but it can be described as knowledge, or a thirst for knowledge. I took it from an older phrase which is "Sapere Aude". Which means "dare to be wise", which has significant meaning in terms of enlightenment and philosophical thinking. So you could translate my alias to mean something along the lines of "A thirst for true knowledge".
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
@VeritasSapere

another #REKT thread. you made some great points there. fortunately, you have great company with @sgbett and keepgoing there speaking some truth.

ah yes, there goes brgtroll444 again towards the end with his usual list of personal attacks. that's b/c he has nothing else.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@AdrianX

Do you care to summarize what are core/BU min fee policies?

From what I remember there are a few parameter that determine lower fee policies:

- minRelayFee

- dust definition

- recently they're trying to remove reserved blocks space for old coins (dunno if it is already merged in 0.12)

I'm sure that there's more than that.

Nevertheless I agree that we should let the market determine what's the equilibrium even for the lower part of the fee spectrum.

We just have to give a way to the participants to decide what is the best course of actions individually rather imposing a top down policy.

After all this is actually what BU is doing for the max block size.

Lastly, it is interesting to notice that even in this case, as for the block size, the centralized policy was/is introduced as a fence against DoS attacks.
@sickpig. Here is my first experience following (post further down is my test.)
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/bitcoin-unlimited-development-discussion.187/page-3#post-7448

I don't know what policy or limits actually are. I can say Core and BU won't broadcast a low or 0 TX fee. The proposed dropping of 0 TX fees for old coins in 0.12 probably relates to relaying transactions as not broadcasting them is already implemented in Core and BU.

I think it's prudent to not relay or broadcast transactions that have 0 TX fees unless they are old to avoid spamming. Removing this feature makes me think most Core developers don't have any old coins and are willing to put extra effort into changing the code so early adopters use the same rules as they have too.

@Peter R What happened to you here?
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/407e64/upeter_r_account_suspended_what_happened/
 
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Aquent

Active Member
Aug 19, 2015
252
667
Did @Peter R get (finally, not sure how you survived so long!) banned from r/bitcoin?

You running for pressident btw @Peter R ?



Edit: Oh, wow, looks like he was suspended fully?
 
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sgbett

Active Member
Aug 25, 2015
216
786
UK
@VeritasSapere

another #REKT thread. you made some great points there. fortunately, you have great company with @sgbett and keepgoing there speaking some truth.

ah yes, there goes brgtroll444 again towards the end with his usual list of personal attacks. that's b/c he has nothing else.
Thanks, I just say what I think :)

What I think is interesting is that it seems all the small blockers share a virtually identical set of beliefs. Whereas I look around here and see that although there is common ideology, there are still quite different points of view. That's encouraging.

I'll keep on keeping on when I can, but it does feel like that dream when you are wading through treacle.
 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
Thanks for sharing you thoughts with us @sgbett, I really do respect your posts. You often manage to find a middle ground in some of these discussions, while empathizing, accurately understanding and describing opposing ideologies. This is something that I have been increasingly doing less of, becoming more polarized over time, my rhetoric has become stronger. It is good that you are able to be so rational while not letting these biases get the best of you. This makes your posts come across very wise.

In regards to feeling like you are wading through treacle, keep in mind that most people reading these forums do not participate themselves, we do not need to convince the people that we are debating with of our message or point of view, but it is the larger audience that is more important in regards to the future of Bitcoin. Keep up the good work, it might sometimes feel like posting on these forums is futile but it is not. We are contributing to the market place of ideas, and as long as the free exchange of information and ideas can continue I am confident that the truth will rise, whatever that might be.
 

sickpig

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
926
2,541
@sgbett I've started to read your post in the aforementioned link on BCT. "Some valid points" buried inside ;-) On a serious note a very well thought and balanced post.

One nitpick: SegWit wont't give us a 3x - 4x gain in terms of block size. It's more something like 1.7x when 100% of miner/nodes/wallets will be adapted to the new version block.
 

sickpig

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
926
2,541
@AdrianX

To send 0 fee txs you need to override default policy using -mintxfee and -minrelaytxfee command-line options.

Both of them use 0.00001 (BTC/kB) as default.

The former would let your wallet/node to broadcast your 0 txs fee, the latter will relay 0 fee txs coming from others.
 
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