Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Mengerian

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 29, 2015
536
2,597
The Story of Mr. Bitcoin

Benjamin Graham, in his famous book The Intelligent Investor, came up with the allegory of “Mr. Market” as a useful mental tool to help investors. Similarly, I think it can be helpful to think of Bitcoin this way. If the Bitcoin market were personified, what would his characteristics be? Who is Mr. Bitcoin? What does he want, and how does he behave?

In a previous post, I concluded by suggesting that future bitcoin holders will act as guardians of its value, and will have to be “prescient, patient, productive, and persistent”. This is the future Mr. Bitcoin wants. His goal is to be owned by people possessing these qualities. But how can he accomplish this goal? He does it by subjecting holders and prospective buyers to a series of tests to ensure they are worthy.

Mr. Bitcoin’s first task was to find people who were prescient. He did this by exhibiting traits attractive to people knowledgeable in open source software, distributed systems, cryptography, and economics. About 99% of people who met Mr. Bitcoin dismissed him immediately, they could not connect the dots from these diverse subject areas to properly understand his future potential. But a select few chose to buy or mine some bitcoin.

Next Mr. Bitcoin needed to ensure that his holders were patient. To do this, he spiked his price in a series of rapid rises. Of the 1% who had bought or mined, most were not patient enough and sold with nice modest gains. When the remaining holders became too exuberant, he went through several bear markets to make sure only those who had long time horizons and wouldn’t get frustrated hung around.

More and more people got to know Mr. Bitcoin and became holders, and he was growing nicely. But Mr. Bitcoin started to get worried. What if his new holders were not really prescient, but were just attracted to him for superficial reasons? Mr. Bitcoin wants his holders to understand and appreciate deep characteristics, not just his surface attributes. He decided to get rid of those who were simply attracted to him for the sake of novelty, technical gimmickry, or fear of missing out. To accomplish this he showed them a long parade of altcoins and scammy get-rich-quick schemes. Many holders were distracted by these diversions, but those who understood Mr. Bitcoin and believed in his long term vision stuck with him.

Things were going along nicely, and the holders were happy. Mr. Bitcoin had a good base of holders and was ready to build for the future. For this he needed productive people. He showed that he could be useful for practical purposes, and that people could build companies around him. He was still fairly complex and hard to approach, so only those with good technical skills could come along. He also raised his price so that only people who had demonstrated their productivity by having saved money could invest in him.

Mr. Bitcoin was growing and evolving. He was expanding his technical capabilities and building services like better exchanges and more secure wallets. He kept his price in a two-year bear market to keep the get-rich-quick crowd away, and his investors focused on building companies and products and gradually accumulating their holdings. But again Mr. Bitcoin grew restless. He knew that the future would present many challenges and obstacles to be overcome. He needed his people to gain toughness for the coming struggles, learn perseverance in the face of setbacks, to not give up but instead be persistent.

This is the test we are currently facing. We were prescient to get involved with Bitcoin and see its potential. We were patient through bubbles, bear markets, and media obituaries. Entrepreneurs and developers are building out the ecosystem and infrastructure. Now we just need to keep working, stick to our guns, and persevere through current challenges. This is what Bitcoin wants. We will grow stronger and more resilient with every challenge that is overcome until Bitcoin is unstoppable.

 

Erdogan

Active Member
Aug 30, 2015
476
855
^ Glitters. When you think of it, Mr Bitcoin and Mr Market is really the same person. That is why I am not at all afraid of what happens with the blocksize. In the end, it will be unlimited by arbitrary rules, only limited by the market.

Low price is also a price. Even free is a price, as long as the service in question is connected to something else of monetary or psychological value. So we have a fee (that was fee not free) market, it is functioning right before your eyes.
 
Last edited:

lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
@solex interesting and a little worrying that theymos has the third key.
perhaps the PARANOID flag would be appropriate ;-)

@Peter R
It was pointed out in another thread 'u/sykikchimp' that the typical economic term should be "Supply Shock" SS rather than "Economic Change Event" ECE. Gad knows we have enough misappropriated words in the bitcoin lexicon. Perhaps it's best to nip it in the bud?
[doublepost=1450312644,1450311795][/doublepost]@Zarathustra
don't forget to sort that thread by 'Best' Or you'll get an ugly shock
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
Last edited:

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
interesting take by one of our Bitcoin luminaries:

Larry Summers Says the Fed Is Walking Into a Trap

http://fortune.com/2015/12/16/larry-summers-fed/

personally, i don't see how the stock mkt continues to ramp thru further rate rises. junk and other corporate bonds are going to get further killed by liquidity lock ups.
[doublepost=1450320826,1450319982][/doublepost]just heard back from Con Kolivas.

he said he would remove the 100 flag when he needs to restart the pool for other updates, but only then. who knows how long that will take. see, this is what i was talking about a coupla weeks ago regarding the "semi-panic" state of most miners. this is how badly miners feel they need to keep their pools up and running every_single_second. and if it ain't broke don't upgrade.

you begin to understand the high reliance on core dev given this situation. not that i agree with it, but.
 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
You do make good points here, miners do not want a single second of downtime, its all about keeping those machines running. This is even more true for a pool. I even feel this way, I pride myself in my lack of downtime, one of the ways I gauge my own success as a miner, since so many of the other variables are out of my control. lol

I do believe that the miners will do the right thing eventually, the feedback loop for Bitcoin governance is slow however especially in regards to proof of work. Slow for the crypto world at least, since everything else seems to move at hyper speed in this space. :)
 

Melbustus

Active Member
Aug 28, 2015
237
884
@Peter R - Do you have an updated version of your Metcalfe graph somewhere (ideally updated to this week to capture the recent activity in both tx vol and price)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: majamalu

Mengerian

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 29, 2015
536
2,597
@Mengerian

Submit this to /r/BitcoinXT?

I like this, and I also think you could do more with the final part, tying it to the blocksize and Core/Blockstream issues. What do all these challenges do for Mr. Market? Make sure people understand him properly, make sure he can't get held down?
Thanks for the feedback! I will think about it and work on revisions.

Yeah, I kind of ran out of steam a bit by the end and just wanted to wrap it up. The main message I was trying to get across is that we shouldn't panic, we should stick to our guns, and persevere in what we believe is the correct course. I'm not sure if it adds anything to get into specifics of the current drama or advocate specific solutions.

I think I'll go review what Benjamin Graham wrote about Mr. Market, maybe that will yield some more ideas.

Mr. Bitcoin can be a real bastard at times, sometimes it seems like he wants to make us suffer. But I have learned a lot from him, and I appreciate that. I have come to the conclusion that the pain is necessary. Mr. Bitcoin needs to demonstrate that he can confront these challenges and overcome them in order to be successful.
 

chriswilmer

Active Member
Sep 21, 2015
146
431
I think it's the same dynamic as in physics and some other fields. A century ago, Hilbert and others from the math department were able to work their way into and sort of take over the physics department largely with the aid of intimidating math. There is also the example of Keynes in economics. The overfocus on math arguably resulted in a lot of tail-wagging-the-dog type dynamics as well as overcomplexity with too many hidden variables within which to hide fudges.

Cryptography and I assume to some extent code complexity performs that same function of intimidation and obfuscation, very useful for power grabs. I don't think Greg has leveraged crypto to the extent that people like Hilbert or Heisenberg or Keynes leveraged math, but his immense technical knowledge certainly doesn't hurt in silencing opposition. It's more complex here, of course, because that technical knowledge is legitimately useful and needed, but equally so is economic understanding and practical/business sense, two areas where I doubt Gmax is particularly competent - to put it gently. Ditto for Adam.
It's funny... one of the most bizarre moments for me (and Peter R) in this whole saga was when Greg responded to Peter's posting of the transaction fee market paper accusing him of trying to confuse others with complex math. I thought that was *really* bizarre. Peter's paper uses, at most, high-school level calculus (or if your high-school wasn't that great, 1st year college calculus). It was a bizarre comment and I keep going over it in my head (... was the math confusing to HIM?!).
 
Last edited:

rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
586
2,284
Peter Todd on Reddit today directly saying that Satoshi's comments on removing the limit were from "back when we didn't understand how Bitcoin worked very well". In other words he and the other devs think they understand Bitcoin better than Satoshi.


The arrogance here is mind numbing, second only to their absolute lack of understanding how Bitcoin works.

It's time to fork and go our separate ways. What is encouraging is I am seeing more and more people posting this view.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
i wonder if kids like this have ever bought an ounce of gold?:

 
  • Like
Reactions: solex and majamalu

Peter R

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,398
5,595
@Peter R - Do you have an updated version of your Metcalfe graph somewhere (ideally updated to this week to capture the recent activity in both tx vol and price)?
Here's a chart I just made. It looks like the two curves are now moving together, but the market cap is still significantly below trend (based on the square of the number of transactions).