Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[BldSwtTrs]

the big hats are newbs, the cypherpunks have filled up the google with character attacks in leiu of technological arguments.

so despite the information being out there it's relatively inaccessible being drowned out in a sea of bullshit.

years yet for some of these business leaders to form a clue

People vaslty underestimate the knowledge gap that needs to be filled.

A technology has zero impact without corporations. R&D can take place outside of corporations. But corporations are the real vectors that harness a technology and make the world more efficient using the new technology.

And corporations need to understand what is possible with the technology. That means people inside corporations need to understand it, because only people do the thinking. So it all boils down to people inside corporations.
--------------------------
I think the Bitcoin/the Blockchain field has three major subjects/use cases:
- Money
- Digital assets
- Data

We could say that money is just a special case of digital assets, which are themselves just a special case of data. But this is mainly a theoretical consideration.
In real life, the money use case is treated separately by market participants from that of the digital assets use case, which is itself treated separately from that of the data use case.
--------------------------
BTC is making the world understand the money use case.
ETH is making the world understand the digital assets use case.
BSV is making the world understand the data use case.

However these three use cases are not in the same phase of adoption by the world.
I think we can make up arbitrary phase numbers, in order to describe the advancement stage of the adoption by the world of each Blockchain's use case:
- BTC is in phase 2. Corporations (people inside it) are starting to understand the "money" use case and adapt their processes accordingly.
- ETH is in phase 1. People outside corporations are starting to understand the "digital assets" use case.
- BSV is in phase 0. Very few people in the world understand the "data" use case. It is mainly a theoretical possibility for now.

It might take another 5 years for BSV to transition to phase 1 (where ETH is currently with the DeFi space). And yet another 5-10 years to transition where BTC currently is regarding adoption by the corporate world.
--------------------------
Then some BSV maximalists might say that since the data use case is all encompassing, at the end of the adoption process, only BSV will prevail (the money use case and the digital assets use case will move to BSV).

But maybe not. Maybe there will be a kind of ossification of each use case around the blockchain that demonstrated each to market participants. Because of stuff like network effect/technical legacy/human habits and symbolism, that will prevent a total and perfect rationalization of the blockchain infrastructure, even in the distant future.

 

[AdrianX]

I think the Bitcoin/the Blockchain field has three major subjects/use cases:
- Money
- Digital assets
- Data

Nice, write up. another lens through which to assess the opportunity for the blockchain, is necessity, it drives innovation. Most in this forum saw the necessity for sound money early, we probably saw an opportunity for digital assets and understood the new organizational structures were going to be digital.

The adoption phases of each of those 3 opportunities align with the general understanding of how it is all connected.

Data is just facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis, in the case of Bitcoin, that data is about money, the economy and how we organize to optimize resource distribution and cooperate to maximize benefits.

It's all connected, the incentive to fragment money from assets (defined with money) and from measuring how efficiently we're organizing it (data) is driven by people wanting to manage the problem for control and to extract extra rents.

Bitcoin may fail at delivering on its potential because people are conditions to see the world through the lens they have always seen it. The wisdom of crowds is as effective as mob mentality.

When I got involved I couldn't see bitcoin scaling (and Etherium, when it materialized, was just a joke), I could see transaction demand scaling exponentially but I couldn't see how data collection (aka the blockchain) growing exponentially could sustain itself. I did not expect the trigger to be 1MB, but I did expect a collapse when infinite growth meets finite capacity.

I've changed my understanding over time, BSV puts a price on data, the net result is a closed-loop: money, assets and data all integrally connected as 1 self-contained economic accounting system, managed and organized by PoW, the very same principles that govern innovation and value exchange.

 

[AdrianX]

The philosophical origins of Bitcoin’s civil war

I left the Bitcoin community about five years ago. My final essay explaining why —  “The resolution of the Bitcoin experiment” —  is to my…

blog.plan99.net

Mike Hearn poped in to conclude the conclusion yesterday.

• The block chain is a tradeoff. It takes anywhere between 10 minutes and hours to confirm a transaction, and wastes a lot of electricity on solving arbitrary puzzles, but these downsides are worth it to get the upsides.

FT;FU
The block chain is a tradeoff. It takes anywhere between 10 minutes and hours to confirm a transaction, and wastes a lot of uses electricity in solving what seems like arbitrary puzzles, but these downsides costs are worth it to get the upsides benefits of sound money.

 

[cypherdoc]

lol + yawn, Jamie:

JPMorgan Predicts $600 Billion Bitcoin Demand | Finance Magnates

JPMorgan Chase has published a research note on Friday and predicted demand of around $600 billion for Bitcoin in the coming years.

www.financemagnates.com

 

[AdrianX]

LOL, I don't think he gets Bitcoin, aka sound money, yet. He's going to be shocked to see how an Inelastic supply affects an effectively elastic demand. Large financial companies cant actually allocate 1% of their assets in bitcoin, gold probably couldn't even handle that without going parabolic.

I'd love to see him try front run that 1% recommendation.

 

[cypherdoc]

I could see transaction demand scaling exponentially but I couldn't see how data collection (aka the blockchain) growing exponentially could sustain itself.

given the increasing politicization over the last 8 mo of truth and facts (esp voting), i can't help but feel Bitcoin will in some way contribute to a new futuristic paradigm of verifiable and immutable reality; in essence protection, against a rewrite of history and a bulwark towards accountability. the need for something like this is paramount at this time in history, otherwise chaos/anarchy from continuous lies and disinformation, imo. while i am disappointed in CSW integrity, it still appears that BSV would be the most likely purveyor of such a new paradigm given it's ability to store data/facts that can't be changed.

 

[bitsko]

Starfish

A Peer to Peer Authentication System

starfish.computer

 

[cypherdoc]

wow:

Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

oops, lol:

 

[cbeast]

wow:

Post automatically merged: Dec 14, 2020

oops, lol:

Still waiting for Trump to pardon Snowden and bring him home on the fastest jet.

 

[rocks]

This is wild, it is confirmation of everything said in the original thread.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/bitcoin-whale-surfaces-with-1-billion-and-alan-howard-s-backing

“A hedge fund specializing in volatility bets has emerged as one of the largest investors in Bitcoin after quietly buying more than $600 million in cryptocurrencies and joining forces with Alan Howard, the co-founder of Brevan Howard Asset Management.

Eric Peters, chief executive officer of One River Asset Management, said in an interview he set up a new company to seize on the growing interest in cryptocurrencies among institutional investors. In addition to its initial purchases, One River Digital Asset Management has commitments that will bring its holdings of Bitcoin and Ether to about $1 billion as of early 2021, he said.”

“There is going to be a generational allocation to this new asset class,” he said. “The flows have only just begun.”

 

[cypherdoc]

Good article. Yes, the cavalry is here :

“Covid-19 provided the ultimate catalyst for that transition,” Peters said. “This is the most interesting macro trade I’ve seen in my career.”

 

[cypherdoc]

This is wild, it is confirmation of everything said in the original thread.

What's weird is I'd bet all of the so called experts of today, including all these hedge fund managers opining on SOV and "digital gold", wandered into this gold thread at some point to read the first couple of years worth of posts that subsequently developed their narrative.

Probably the first time in history that "retail" investors were able to front run Wall Street. Such is "decentralization".

 

[AdrianX]

“This is the most interesting macro trade I’ve seen in my career.”

I'm sure there are many readers here who are grateful to have seen it years before.

 

[rocks]

From monitoring the reports coming out of the banks, and the various funds and insurance companies that are starting to publicly state some percent of bitcoin allocation, I believe we are on the cusp of a true institutional FOMO event into Bitcoin, which will rival the 2012-2013 cycle in terms of scale and total percentage. Everyone knows the US is going to print the dollar into oblivion and there are very few life rafts available to the other side. Once a few funds buy in, they all will since fund managers follow the herd and do not want to be under allocated to an asset class.

 

[cbeast]

I'm wondering just how far BSV can be pushed as a Turing Machine. Will R-Puzzle libraries drive parallel computing? CSW hinted at this, but I haven't seen development announcements. The mind boggles at the possibilities.

 

[theZerg]

For old times sake:

And now.....the comparison from the beginning of this thread, March 13th, 2012, gold=1690, Bitcoin=5.4):
Bitcoin is 23780.00. Gold is 1885.71.

Bitcoin: 440270.37%
Gold: 11.58%
Ratio of commodity appreciation: 394666.16% advantage Bitcoin and Growing
Daily Appreciation (in USD): BTC: 7.4272 Gold: 0.0611

 

[AdrianX]

Will R-Puzzle libraries drive parallel computing? CSW hinted at this...

mmm, let me think about it quickly.... um, in conclusion in order to creating value, by being a better entrepreneur and serving society, so I can feed my family I would like sound money so I can save to manage risk.

This now acute problem the world is facing, how does one save in a global economy that is designed to destroy savings and encourage speculating in a myriad of bubble assets including BTC?

Begs the question, Who can afford to innovate?

Got it, I know! Only those who benefit from the current instability, notably the people who've speculated on BTC. CSW potentially being the biggest beneficiary, and he's now looking into what do you call them? ...R-Puzzle, while Roam burns and he tells everyone BTC was going to zero when it was like $3000.

On a side note, it would be good if he admitted that prediction was wrong, government fiat is not working at creating wealth etc. I'll give him a break, at the time he had insider info that China was about to crack down on exchanges, but realistically it pushed the price up not to zero.

@cbeast just taking the mickey, but seriously BSV is going to vanish soon if it can't get a network effect growing. It won't matter what you can build on the blcokchain if no one can afford to mine it and that's a serious probability if the number of users does not start growing exponentially.

 

[cbeast]

@AdrianX. $30,000 is still hobby territory. I once thought BTC would surpass BRK.A, but that can never happen because it has neither utility, volume, nor liquidity. The last time between bull runs was three years, if the next one is ten, will anyone care anymore?

I suppose Satoshi can use his patents and licenses to re-issue Bitcoin and sue for the right to the name. Let's say he got a trillion dollars in backing for such an effort and a global marketing campaign. So then, hypothetically, would r-puzzles drive parallel computing?

 

[AdrianX]

but that can never happen because it has neither utility,

Bitcoin is a self-balancing incentive system, the above is true of BTC, not Bitcoin.

The lack of utility is a function of innovation in the economy. The innovation has been stifled by limiting use, this was by design - Blockstream funded Core developers and the myriad of other funding souses that doubled down on becoming middlemen to tax transaction on L2. BTC can still fix the issues and become Bitcoin again.

volume, nor liquidity.

BTC has volume and liquidity in the market even on-chain. Growth is being severely crippled and forced in the wrong direction, mainly off-chain, by limiting transaction capacity, if successful we get the same corrupt system on top of bitcoin only to decoupled from BTC like gold decoupled from money.

CSW if he's half as enthusiastic about LAW as he implies, he should be ecstatic. The development that's taking place as a result of limiting access and transaction capacity and forcing people into KYC custodial 3rd party intermediaries who can be regulated to weed out "criminals" when they don't do as the LAW dictates. The anarchy that's needed for success will be terminated.

if the next one is ten, will anyone care anymore?

I'm not even sure BSV will survive if people don't care anymore.

Many things do go through such hype cycles, people don't know how money works so maybe not. BTC has been coopted to be a settlement system for fiat, BTC could follow that trajectory and the hype cycle could last 40-50 years. the system is so broken now even a less broken system looks viable.

Let's say he got a trillion dollars in backing for such an effort and a global marketing campaign.

If you gave a trillion dollars to CSW and his followers I don't think they could manage a successful marketing campaign, there are aspects of marketing eg network effects that they don't get at all, and if they have to sell BTC to fund it they would be inadvertently growing the BTC network as crippled as it is.

So then, hypothetically, would r-puzzles drive parallel computing?

I don't know, I already have all the parallel computing I need.

 

[cbeast]

@AdrianX Yeah, I only need 640k of parallel computing. But my kids will wonder why we didn't see Satoshi's Vision. Ideas don't die. BSV is just an idea. In fact, I think it's pretty cool that nobody sees it yet. That just means it's that much further ahead of its time. That's why I'm not afraid to talk in hypotheticals, because there isn't anything at risk. It won't be long before trillions of USD will be like trillions of Zimbabwe dollars. A new money system will be needed. I don't think even Core has the hubris to think they can guide the global money flow, but CSW does.