Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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yea, i appreciate you are simply poking holes in order to be quadriple-sure. it's just that it seems clear that a lot of internet chatter is barking up the wrong tree, either deliberately or by incomprehension of the evolution of the space. what i would like to understand better are things like why the STN is not regularly pushing tps's in the thousands rather than the hundreds, and why mainnet txn count has not grown during 2020. we are in march.
 

shadders

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Jul 20, 2017
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It's one of those of those "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear" type questions... The implication is if I don't answer I'm hiding something... I simply refuse to play that game so I won't engage at all...
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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its fine if you choose not to answer. that's your prerogative. I've already convinced myself that it shouldn't be plausible and believe that you and CSW would have to create your own hard fork with new ticker if somehow this was attempted. I think it's a shame you won't take a stand since I view it as an opportunity for you. I just like to accumulate as many data points (arguments) in my favor when I take to social media in defending and promoting bsv. but things like this is why someone like me refuses to go all in (I remain hedged) on the new kid on the block.
 

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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Isn't the only way to convince a majority of jurisdictions worldwide that Satoshi coins should go to him, basically to prove to those courts he is Satoshi? Meaning the coins would be his anyway and he just lost the keys or something.

But this is moot because his argument is that it depends on an international court process. All he is doing is refuting the idea that Bitcoin is above the law. The likes of Zectro are naturally grasping at ways to spin it to be about him or about BSV, but any actual reading of the things he's written on this, rather than soundbytes, show it to be unrelated to what he is saying.

As I told Patterson, it is an observation not a policy, and it applies to all blockchains.
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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geez, that would almost resemble devs being in a position to redirect a percentage of the coinbase to themselves. wouldn't that do wonders to the value proposition.
game theory suggests this would be highly implausible in terms of success but just an attempt would be highly damaging. that's why I'm asking. I don't trust anyone near authority.
 
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79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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what i would like to understand better are things like why the STN is not regularly pushing tps's in the thousands rather than the hundreds.
ask and you shall receive (thank you @Otaci ):
Dan Conolly: [...] we do envisage that eventually the Bitcoin SV node implementation will have difficulty in handling the volume of transactions on the Bitcoin SV blockchain.[...]The Bitcoin SV node implementation is just not designed for high volumes of transactions and it will eventually reach a limit in the number of transactions that it can process.

CoinGeek: How many TPS can Teranode achieve when first released?
Dan Conolly: 10,000 is the first target for the beta releases.

CoinGeek: What are the major milestones in Teranode development? When is the target release date?
Dan Conolly: We will be releasing a series of beta’s that gradually build up the capabilities of Teranode over the next year or so, leading to a full release in 2021.

CoinGeek: Will Teranode have a feature to allow companies to simulate their transactions on the Scaling Test Network in order to determine cost savings?
Dan Conolly:Teranode will support the Scaling Test Network.
https://coingeek.com/daniel-connolly-were-taking-a-big-data-approach-with-teranode/
 
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BSV is practically dead if it comes to that. Bitcoin would lose it's value proposition.
I don't see a chance that sufficient powerful courts ever execute a csw ownership claim about Satoshi coins by forcing miners worldwide to write cryptographically invalid transactions to the blockchain. Just look at how the last lawsuits went for him...

The conspiracy theory however, as unbiased and ridiculous it is, has some grab. So it would have been better when @shadders or @Otaci confirmed to not do this instead of rejecting an answer.
 
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Zangelbert Bingledack

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Aug 29, 2015
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The problem with the concern is it doesn't actually make any sense. If a court can move coins regardless of the technicals of the given blockchain, which is the observation Wright is making, then it's impossible to conclude that this applies specially to BSV - even supposing BSV miners were to add some software feature that tries to aid courts in doing this.

It's not like the courts turn to BTC and BCH miners and say, "Oh nevermind, we see you don't run software that has a built-in mechanism to facilitate court orders. Nothing we can do. Continue mining as you were."

It's an incoherent claim as it stands; those making it should turn it into something coherent that actually is responsive to what Wright has said if they want an answer.
 

AdrianX

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Aug 28, 2015
2,097
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bitco.in
So it would have been better when @shadders or @Otaci confirmed to not do this instead of rejecting an answer.
sure I'd have thought it's in their interest to answer, But they are just employees, not gods. It shouldn't matter what they say, they shouldn't actually have any power to change the protocol one way or the other.

The fact the protocol has not yet ossified and the fact BSV developers have influence just makes it awkward that they don't answer. I like the ambiguity it forces people to think and figure out how bitcoin works.

The narrative (a) below is a fictitious narrative believed by some for reasons I won't speculate on. Without evidence, it's just a narrative that creates asymmetric knowledge.


Im not about to invest in BSV directly, if I were I'd be looking for stability. BSV just happens to be the most viable bitcoin ledger to build on and the only version that espouses the principle that the protocol should be locked. There is only one way to test if they mean what they say and that is to give it time. In the interim people can speculate one way or the other, whoever grows the fastest wins, for peace of mind, changing the protocol creates uncertainty that literally discourages growth.

I'm not going to respond to every crazy story out there on the internet.
... searches the internet for a crazy story (y) as an answer to a simple question.:censored::cautious::whistle:
 
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cypherblock

Active Member
Nov 18, 2015
163
182
As a miner, how would you defend against a selfish miner?
That's a whole other branch of discussion, totally valid and often under explored.

Most people that I've seen, engage fully in the theoretical, "can it be done", and "does it make more $ than HM" discussion and rarely dive into practical defenses and how the broader community would react. Peter and CSW in that "bet" were arguing the theoretical side of things, and Craig does not discuss defenses in his paper on the subject that I recall.

To your question: Most people assume miners would be able to identify the selfish miner and would ignore their perfectly valid blocks. I'm not sure it has ever been widely explored.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
The problem with the concern is it doesn't actually make any sense. If a court can move coins regardless of the technicals of the given blockchain, which is the observation Wright is making, then it's impossible to conclude that this applies specially to BSV - even supposing BSV miners were to add some software feature that tries to aid courts in doing this.

It's not like the courts turn to BTC and BCH miners and say, "Oh nevermind, we see you don't run software that has a built-in mechanism to facilitate court orders. Nothing we can do. Continue mining as you were."

It's an incoherent claim as it stands; those making it should turn it into something coherent that actually is responsive to what Wright has said if they want an answer.
simple enough. maybe I haven't been clear.

I like to believe that my sentiment towards CSW being Satoshi correlates with worldwide opinion on the matter. I still put it at about 60-70% chance that he is Satoshi and it slowly increases everyday that the claim goes unchallenged by a signed private message from the real Satoshi that "I am not Craig". CSW has become more brazen everyday in claiming that "I am Satoshi and when I created Bitcoin when I wrote the WP", etc. with bsv miners, the sentiment that CSW is Satoshi is probably even higher at maybe 85%, all this without him ever producing a signed message or some semblance of proof he actually owns the private keys. we know with @shadders it's 100%; and he's CSW's employee. now let's fast forward two years when BSV's price is say $800. also let's assume the facts on the ground don't change one iota. just from time alone, even my confidence about CSW being Satoshi probably ratchets up to 80% and BSV miners up to 95% from the lack of a signed message to the contrary. suddenly, out of nowhere, @shadders and @Otaci at the behest of CSW decide to release a hard fork that reallocates ownership of the Satoshi coins to CSW because reasons and "general sentiment that CSW is Satoshi". how do you stop them? gvt won't since they still have no reason to care. many community members won't since the anti digital gold meme is becoming popular amongst big blockists and maybe they just feel he deserves them. and @shadders and @Otaci might not since they might stand to benefit. and just the fact that it probably won't work game theory wise wouldn't stop the damage that would occur if this is attempted.

my question on this matter shouldn't be surprising here. this is the GCBU thread that I authored based on my own feelings about sound money and the fact that I do believe that Bitcoin is sound money destined to replace gold and quite possibly the dollar . I believe that money needs to be fungible and the 21M supply sacrosanct. reallocation by law is also problematic as well since, as I said, gvt oftens shoots first and asks questions later. despite this new narrative that Bitcoin's success depends on enterprise adoption and that institutions don't care about sound money and thus we shouldn't too, I reject that idea and goal entirely. maybe they don't care and maybe CSW, @shadders, and @Otaci don't care. I do. I think sound money is the main reason for Bitcoin's success to date and at least half the reason for success gong forward. @shadders tried to strawman me by claiming I was claiming that CSW had to be maliciously plotting a coin grab for 11y; no, he only has to be planning this for 5y or so if he indeed is a fraud. and I've always claimed he could be a fraud as long as he doesn't sign with keys. that's my position.

all I've asked for was for @shadders and @Otaci to clarify their positions on coin inflation and whether or not they would support a reallocation of the 1M Satoshi coins to CSW in the absence of him producing the private keys as they are the github key holders and presumably CSW would have to go through them . it's a simple question to my mind with what I thought would have a simple answer. their lack of an answer as employees of CSW tells me they feel a need to keep all options open as one possible motivation. the other is that they truly believe I'm a pest. my counter to that is that I've helped rather dramatically turn this place into a BSV strong hold, helped dramatically in furthering their cause in other forums, have created a platform that I've established since 8/11 and that they are using to influence/monitor opinion, participated in Bitcoin probably longer than either of them, and have never flamed them (in fact the opposite) here or elsewhere. yet I'm called a rando. ok.
 
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cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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yes, my strategy has always been to line up as many ducks (facts aka commitments) as possible, as small or trivial as they might be, so that I can shoot them later if I have to if they were just walking and talking like ducks. too bad.
 
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cypherblock

Active Member
Nov 18, 2015
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I still put it at about 60-70% chance that he is Satoshi
First it is not a "binary" thing. He could be part of original Satoshi team, but not necessarily the one the came up with key pieces of the tech. Second, with regards to "coin confiscation" it is a pretty ridiculous concept to even consider (far worse than recent ABC IFP). Yes I suppose a court could threaten a fine if coins are not to sent to person X by some date, but it seems unlikely to me. Miner is not in any way considered owner of those coins and obviously it would just tank the price affecting thousands of other people.
 
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