Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

great discussion guys. keep it up.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Did CSW provide an explanation for the fact that he opened a Mt Gox account in 2013?

I mean, if he is Satoshi, why would he do that?

 

[AdrianX]

Ira could go broke trying to pierce an impenetrable shield out of pure greed.

He could sue CSW, but that won't work either If I recall CSW offered Ira an opportunity to work for it and he turned it down. Maybe he could try alimony court.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

The rebirth of lamarckism.

Thinking on this more.
The relation to Bitcoin is oblique, but it can be found in stacked protocol layers and corresponding stacked spontaneous orders (a.k.a. natural orders, emergent generative systems).

Very loosely maybe something like:

Bitcoin protocol - DNA base-pair system - Darwinian evolution

Planaria protocol - Epigenetics - Lamarckism (corrected version)

Mining - Economics - Group selection

 

[Zarathustra]

1851.

More Schopenhauer truth bombs.

“Solitude offers man intellectually highly placed two advantages: first, to be with oneself, and the second for not being with others”

"All love is pity"

The latter quote sounds shocking. But after studying his ethics chapters, which are the most interesting ones, I realized it's true.

What I also learned studying his philosophy: The average pessimist is happier than the average optimist. Pessimism about the world or yourself are two completely different things.

 

[Zarathustra]

@freetrader

I'm hoping to sidestep the banter for a bit, with some serious discussion.

These two statements from ZB align much with my recent thinking, and I wonder if it doesn't get down to the crux of the differences between the two camps.


I believe Bitcoin was very carefully designed from the start. (satoshi paraphrased - much more effort went into design than implementation) I don't think it's a coincidence that it subtly threads itself through the worlds legal systems as Money (cash) it is appears exempt from nearly all the legal pitfalls of regular securities. In other words, there doesn't appear to be any legal precedent that can be used to shut it down. If so we surely would have seen attempts by now?

This leads into parallels with the telecom industry, or in ZB's example; software. Miners must be seen as independent bulk carriers, they simply transmit transactions, and have no further interaction. If they start enabling use cases that are considered illegal in most jurisdictions, such as on chain gambling or totally anonymous share/stock trading, It opens them up to a massive attack vector. Current laws on money are positively ancient. Such law is very hard for democratic governments to change, the legal precedent is just too overwhelming.

In other words pushing for code changes that enable illegal activity (however nice and anarchic they might seem) essentially passes the burden of liability from Developer to naive Miner.
Don't misunderstand here. I'm all for some of these use cases. The issue I have is if a developer wants to enable something that will be considered illegal, like gambling, then it is up to them to fight it out in court and take on the burden of their actions. I wish them luck and victory. To do so, they must keep it off chain, not recklessly risk everything, for the sake of a non-monetary use case, that effectively sticks a middle finger up at the worlds governments and exposes a massive new attack vector. Cryptocurrency is not unstoppable, believing it is, seriously underestimates the world we live in. Bitcoin is a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

I'm ambling a little, but I'd like to touch on the anonymous aspect. Your flippant BSV acronym actually touches on a very serious topic. Do we want an anonymous coin? I see lots of people pushing for this, and suspect it might be Roger, Amaury and perhaps your main reason for supporting the ABC side. I don't believe it to be the best path forward. Government, (specifically corrupt government connected individuals) pretty much have god mode enabled on the world finance and surveillance systems.
We've all heard the reports "According to reports, a Londoner is likely caught on security camera over 300 times a day, which is the highest in UK; and an American citizen can be caught on camera more than 75 times per day!"

This is an unstoppable, increasing trend. Fact. Whether this info is in the hands of governments, corporations or well financed individuals irrelevant. It exists, can, and will be used.

Whats the solution? Anonymous coins, camo face masks, constant paranoia and bunker living? The alternative is total transparency, it's scary, especially when you don't trust governments to do the right thing. Yet here lies Bitcoins greatest potential. An end to corruption.

With a blockchain that is private, yet an open, public, ledger (not anonymous) all you need is an endpoint. (The bigger you are, the harder it will be to hide) Then instead of quivering in a bunker, scared of their governments, concerned citizens can use their skills to hunt down corrupt politicians/agencies/judges and have a full, legally admissible record or their crimes. Law then does what it's supposed to. Punish the thieves. It is not the individual that should be scared of surveillance (that's inevitable in our future) Rather it's hypocritical, corrupt, governments having a spotlight shone on their transgressions, by millions of angry people with cryptographically verifiable proof. Who would actually gain the most if we had anonymous coins?

The solution to darkness is light, not more darkness.

There are other problems with totally anonymous coins, but i've gone on long enough. Just consider how hard it would be for regular legally abiding businesses (the majority of the world) to do proper accounting? One side of the transaction already knows who they are, so true anonymity is a paradox. We need the ability to privately know who's on the other end, before we conduct business.

It's our right to choose who we deal with.

 

[sgbett]

I recently had a post deleted one BitcoinTalk that's been up for well over a year. Theonly reason I could think was because it mentions brg444 working for block stream. Which isn't a good look lets be honest.

I did a quick googling and it seems all trace of this happening has been wiped from the internets! Which made me question whether I had in fact fallen foul of "fake news".

@cypherdoc its been a while... but it also made me remember this....

source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg9561978#msg9561978

Well I'm pleased to report, that my perseverance has paid off...

source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170218022743/https://blockstream.com/team/

2BTC you say?

 

[cypherdoc]

haha, a blast from the past. now you can see why I have such high sensitivity to GCBU trolls , like @freetrader and why I know this thread gets targeted. turns out I was spot on about that brg444 kid. a Blockstream plant/mole that showed up in the thread immediately after the SC's WP release and then proceeded to troll me relentlessly with non sensical arguments and memes. just one in a long line. sound familiar?
[doublepost=1581089850][/doublepost]btw that my pic of him linking him to Blockstream was released years ago. he is the exact scrawny little pimp I envisioned him to be. I think it only took him a year or less to get fired and replaced by Mow, yet another pimp . I wonder how old @freetrader is?
[doublepost=1581090731,1581089660][/doublepost]lol, sorry I can't help myself. anyone remember that first pic of brg444 that showed up on social media somewhere on a street lapping up what looked like ice cream? someone here couldn't stop laughing at the hilarity of his appearance (someone find that for me. I need a good laugh ) . that scrawny little pimp.

 

[AdrianX]

I recently had a post deleted one BitcoinTalk that's been up for well over a year. Theonly reason I could think was because it mentions brg444 working for block stream. Which isn't a good look lets be honest.

LOL, this has been going on for months. I did not want to make it public because I was sent an email every time a post was deleted, and I didn't want to tip any one-off.

Yes, bitcoin history is stranger than fiction, and the Ministry of Truth is alive and well.

 

[cypherdoc]

how about all the anti Blockstream rhetoric I posted in the old GCBU thread? gone too?

 

[sgbett]

Hard to say, you get a private message when your posts are deleted. I generally stayed the right side of the line not to upset moderators, so I don't think much I wrote warrants deleting.

The whole thing is laughable, really.
[doublepost=1581093162][/doublepost]

lol, sorry I can't help myself. anyone remember that first pic of brg444 that showed up on social media somewhere on a street lapping up what looked like ice cream? someone here couldn't stop laughing at the hilarity of his appearance (someone find that for me. I need a good laugh ) . that scrawny little pimp.

OH I remember it only too well...

From his twitter https://twitter.com/bergealex4 (im blocked of course)

I think it was in this very thread that it was suggested that the lost control of some account or other.
[doublepost=1581093248][/doublepost]his old medium account too ... https://medium.com/@bergealex4 iirc he set up another but I don't know the handle

 

[cypherdoc]

hahaha.

I think it was @theZerg who couldn't stop laughing.

 

[kyuupichan]

Did CSW provide an explanation for the fact that he opened a Mt Gox account in 2013?

I mean, if he is Satoshi, why would he do that?

I wonder if OGs no longer think, too much GMax bullshit dulling their senses?

Craig has a bunch of Bitcoin in trusts, as is known to all but the cultists.

He likely also wanted to have "unconnected" and independent personal holdings. He mined some himself separate to the trusts. He might have sold some of those, or he might have bought more. I have knowledge of one transaction he has done OTC which I will not discuss further. Christ, think a bit.

 

[Norway]

If I invented Bitcoin, I would certainly check out MtGox for many reasons.

 

[cypherdoc]

how about all the anti Blockstream rhetoric I posted in the old GCBU thread? gone too?

a quick perusal around Oct 2014 (SC's WP) indicate my posts are intact I think. wonder why they're deleting your guys posts. since I lost control of my account several years ago, I don't get emails about deletions.

 

[cypherdoc]

Boom

 

[79b79aa8]

I guess you forgot which blockchain isn't aiming to feed at the trough of state granted monopolies.
(cough, patents, cough).

i guess you lost sight of the objective. it's always the same objective, pinky: to take over the world. last time i checked, this world contains patents. something tells me you lack the gumption to change that.

 

[Norway]

Hey @Christoph Bergmann!

Fidor Bank (integrated in Bitcoin.de) should get a mobile app. All the cool banks have an app!

Also: Are you going to Coingeek in London?

PS: I live in Norway. Norway is not part of EU, and we have our own money. But we participate in the border control system, and basically adapt every single rule from EU 2 years later, lol). I love the Bitcoin.de / Fidor bank combo.

Please ask your employer/customer in Bitcoin.de to push Fidor to make an app like the rest of the banks do. WITH 100% ENGLISH TRANSLATION.

 

[Norway]

Tip for anyone who wants a world wide accepted Master Card (denominated in Euro) that you can top up with BSV and with small fees:

Register at bitcoin.de, and follow the steps to establish a Fidor account.

Downsides, quite a few. But I think they are worth it. These are the downsides:

1. It's all written in german. You have to use Google translate. Copy & paste from 1 window to another. It takes time, you have to understand what you agree to.

2. KYC. It's a nightmare, but it only lasts for 15-20 minutes. Video conference with a sexy lady (I was lucky) where you have to browse through all the pages in your passport, move the passport close to camera lense for top secret footage of hidden watermark in your passport, OCR readings of public keys, combine images of your passport in different positions related to your face etc. Read out loud your name and intentions several times.

3. Low liquidity, as @Christoph Bergmann has explained before. Delisting resulted in many (not all) of arbitrage traders to leave Bitcoin.de. So, you get a very big spread between bids and asks. The consequence is that you have to be a market maker to get a reasonable price. And you may have to wait hours/days before you get a deal. You can always make a quick trade, but that means you'll get a steep price. However, I think that this will change the next few months to the better, as BSV picks up steam and Bitcoin.de will profit from listing BSV when the morons did not.

Long story short: I think the combo Bitcoin.de and my new Fidor Master Card is a very good option today for BSV -> Fiat credit card, as it removes the whole prosess of exchanging crypto-to-crypto because big exchanges with fiat connections have delisted BSV. The thing is, the bank action is fast on Bitcoin.de with a linked Fidor card.

 

[AdrianX]

last time i checked, this world contains patents.

A patent is a monopoly on an idea it's a make-believe construct that is enforced by law. It's as abstract as a company having rights.

Patents stifle innovation. If you have one you can use it to stifle innovation if you have 800 of them you can use 800 of them. if you don't believe patents stifle innovation don't get one.

The BCH economy is full of hypocrites, people who believe it's virtuous to be the victims of patents stifling innovation.

The bottom line is, we live in a world where abstract ideas are enforced, bitcoin can change that but not by ignoring it, but by leveraging the absurdity to absurdity. The blockchain is the solution to digital property.

We have a choice:

1) Go out, get as many patents as you can and use them to protect bitcoin and prevent banks and copycats from stifling the innovation, on bitcoin. Or

2) Let those who want to stifle bitcoin innovation get all the patents.

nChain is a company that was championing a Bitcoin node called BSV that got forked off. One of the reasons was getting patents to stifle innovation on other protocols.

note: none of their patents are in the bitcoin protocol. And

note 2: ABC may have inadvertently included one of the patent applications in their Bitcoin protocol just to piss off CSW, why, because they didn't want to be influenced by a "takeover attempt".

In case you don't understand what that means, it means ABC are not strategic or rational thinkers. I's deficit thinking that now dominates in BCH leadership (consideration of a mining tax is the latest example)

If you haven't noticed ABC have more control not less after forking off BSV, while cooperating would have resulted in shared control. This centralization of control means more and greater mistakes.