Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
the perversions/problems from the constant ABC protocol tweaking (twerking if you prefer) continue to stack up causing further confusion and chaos amongst the BCH participants. now we find out about parking as yet another pseudo/made up desperate protection mechanism meant to fight off a hash majority which is now turning around to bite them and prevent them from receiving the handouts they've been begging for via a hash majority ala 51% attack. the collusions amongst the BCH elite continue apace leaving their users and merchants gasping to wonder what's next. we do know this comes q6mo though. altogether a major shit show and perversion of the original Bitcoin principles and incentives .
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
are there any further questions as to why the protocol needs to be locked down to prevent this perception of having to pay protocol devs that leech off the system via extortion of protocol derived income that should be going exclusively to miners for security? now we see a desperate ill conceived attempt by BCH miners to satisfy these demands originating from amaury and co. a hash majority should only come into play via Nakamoto Concensus and forking, not handouts. for Roger this is now collusion strike 2 and now I can't decide who's worse for the system, he or amaury.
[doublepost=1579783403][/doublepost]no major institution or merchant will dare enter a system like this whose security is so threatened on a daily basis. it's like clock work; in 6mo there will be yet another crisis in BCH. pretty soon the whole thing will just die.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
btw, I don't want to hear any talk about how generous these pool admins, like Roger and Jihan, are being as I'm assuming the majority of these pools are still composed of individual hashers pointing their hash at them (even Antpool at this stage of their game). would I, as an individual hanher be pleased with what these pool leaders just did with 12.5% of my income? hell no. mining profits are already hard to come by.
 

kyuupichan

Member
Oct 3, 2015
95
348
Here is some news.

https://medium.com/@jiangzhuoer/infrastructure-funding-plan-for-bitcoin-cash-131fdcd2412e

It's a proposal to take 12.5% of the BCH mining reward and give it to developers.
Lol, it's hilarious. Even todu, im_uname and other toxic BCH trolls seem worried now.

Supported by:

Jiang Zhuoer — BTC.Top
Jihan Wu — Antpool, BTC.com
Haipo Yang — ViaBTC
Roger Ver — Bitcoin.com
Supported by 4 whales who went all-in on BAB in massive size at the time of the split from BSV and are realizing their mistake, utterly dependent on a dictator dev who doesn't hold even 1k BAB. Their investment in their shitlord is certainly paying off in spades though - a never-ending shitshow.

I'm looking forward to a new bitcoin fork in May - BAB-cum-devtax and BAB-sans-devtax
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
the cartel taxing miners will turn BCH into a POS system. the Fab Five sign off on accepted blocks or else will orphan.

I would guess non Fab Five miners will point their hash at other chains.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
The result is the miners who don't want to pay the 12.5% tax leave; difficulty adjusts and the miners who stay earn a greater percentage of the reward about 12.5% extra less the 1.56% (tax) which is 12.5% on the 12.5% extra piece of the pie.

The people who pay are the investors as the miner's operating costs don't go down. They just spend more coins to cover the same operation g costs.

New miners don't enter because they have to pay the 12.5% tax. BCH centralized and control goes to the administrators of the tax.

The day before yesterday, I was still hopeful for BCH that hope just dwindled to barely a glowing ember.

ABC, well done, you fucked me over you win this one.
 
Last edited:
Very interesting background from Mark blundeberg. Didn't know about the parking rule. Makes it much worse. Devs playing with the economics of proof of work.

Plot suggestion: ABC devs are kind enough to 'fix' the miner tax program by hardforking it into the protocol in May.
[doublepost=1579800254][/doublepost]Hostfat already begging the devs to find time to secure their income with a softfork

[doublepost=1579800383][/doublepost]And here we go...


If anything, this story shows that devs sandboxing pow economics has always negative side effects.

I never fully understood why chain locks are a bad idea until the miners combined it with another bad idea.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
I'm in favor to see it as a soft fork instead of a hard fork,
What's going on, it's like BCH is infiltrated with professional narrative spinners. All this debate circumventing the issue while no one is actually calling a spade a spade it's like: We know we need to pay out gods, we're just not sure if this is the best way or if it's going to be transparent enough, like somehow it's all going to be good if it's transparent, or a soft fork or a hard fork or something. Are the BU BCH members too embarrassed to show up here or what?

Maybe they like the potential opportunity to earn a little extra on the side.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
In that interview, Craig lets the interviewer know what he thinks of BTC - he doesn't mince his words, it's a scam. My question is, is he going to profit from the scam and sell his BTC?

He also gives a hard to swallow opinion on what he thinks BSV is worth.
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
@AdrianX
My question is, is he going to profit from the scam and sell his BTC?
From what I have read, he will sell all his BCH and BTC this year. Not to dump the price, but to extract as much value as possible. So he will sell it bit by bit as an iceberg order. Most likely, he will move the newest coins first to not cause panic. But if the adresses he provided to court become public, it will cause panic.

Eventually, I expect both BCH and BTC to collapse no matter how careful he is selling his coins on these chains. BTC blocks will be full during the panic and tx fees skyrocket. Miners will run to BSV, adding to the effect with increasing time between each 1MB block found. A full freeze of BTC may happen because the difficulty never gets adjusted to a functional level.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
He sure is doing a great job convincing people he's got nothing to sell while saying the opposite.

I reserve judgment, but for now, he sure has me convinced.

This is going to be a bloodbath if he does have coins and does sell them, and so much, so I think we're going to see how libertarian these libertarians actually are.

I suspect the FED may prove to be more libertarian and open to the notion of a free market than many in bitcoin.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
This gets better and better /s, I can't actually believe what is happening. All I can say thank god for BSV. I now see why @Mengerian and @deadalnix were distancing themselves from BU they were mind fucking the Chinese miners.

https://read.cash/@deadalnix/on-the-infrastructure-funding-plan-for-bitcoin-cash-bd372a10

Who control the funds
This is obviously the elephant in the room.
No, that not it. The conflict of interest is one, and his understanding of the bitcoin protocol's incentive design is another.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. Other miners can mine another chain
Oh and I love this:

I would also invite a group of trusted community members, such as Vin Armani, Josh Ellithorpe, Chris Pacia or Mike Malley who can advise on ways to spend the funds...
A group of 7 to 12 miners, developers, and businessmen in total would ensure that various sides of the ecosystem have their say without bogging down the whole thing with unnecessary bureaucracy.
LOL I can't stop laughing, in my years of bitcoin I could never imagine such blatant centralized planning by just 7-12 miners, developers, and businessmen.
 
Last edited:

rocks

Active Member
Sep 24, 2015
586
2,284
This is going to be a bloodbath if he does have coins and does sell them, and so much, so I think we're going to see how libertarian these libertarians actually are.

I suspect the FED may prove to be more libertarian and open to the notion of a free market than many in bitcoin.
If the past 10(!) years has demonstrated anything it is the vast majority of people who got into Bitcoin did so only as a get rich quick scheme. They have no interest in Bitcoin's stated purpose, which is to re-establish honesty in the money supply and remove government control/manipulation over money. So they have no understanding of what success for Bitcoin means or how the chain works.

Yes, if craig starts to move satoshi's coins with the intent of selling it will be a blood bath. People won't even be able to move coins to exchanges without paying massive fees.

I suspect the majority however would continue to buy Bitcoin on the way down, because they've been taught over the past 10 years that BTC always bounces back and major drops are always a buying opportunity. It will be a painful lesson and many who made a lot of money in BTC will end up with a lot less.

The big question is will Craig sell BTC/BCH to buy BSV or instead cash out.
[doublepost=1579828514][/doublepost]
LOL I can't stop laughing, in my 9 years of bitcoin I could never imagine such blatant centralized planning by just 7-12 miners, developers, and businessmen.
Core was less than 7 people and they not only centralized development and mining, but centralized allowed speech as well. Their censorship made a small piece of myself permanently lose faith in humanity.
 
Last edited:

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
@rocks Yes, I hear you.

Up until the segwit2X agreement it seemed to me Blockstream Core did not have a handle on things hence they called in the DCG. Days before the agreement the BSCore had about 30% of miners and BU close to 50% the remaining 20 were agnostic, so while there was centralized desition making there were independent players.

I here your humanitarian concerns, if anything it exposed how the game is plaid. One has to be grateful for that, Bitcoin at the time was insignificant in the bigger picture of global propaganda and reality manipulation.

Bitcoin is an idea whose time has come. Perceived reality is pervertedly abstracted from actual reality, I think it'll catch on like wildfire when it takes. (that's BSV it doesn't screw up)
 
Last edited:

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
He sure is doing a great job convincing people he's got nothing to sell while saying the opposite.

I reserve judgment, but for now, he sure has me convinced.

This is going to be a bloodbath if he does have coins and does sell them, and so much, so I think we're going to see how libertarian these libertarians actually are.

I suspect the FED may prove to be ore libertarian and open to the notion of a free market than many in bitcoin.
ah, it all makes sense now! for those of you, including myself, who have wondered why CSW might have stuffed his early, virtually worthless BTC, into a Trust way back then, i now have a plausible theory. having gone thru the process of understanding asset protection strategies just recently, it's quite likely CSW may have created the equivalent of a GRAT (Grantor Retained Annuity Trust) that is an ideal vehicle for passing onto one's heirs or SO's highly appreciated assets w/o paying any long term capital gains or inheritance taxes. listen to this Tyson Cross interview to help put this into context and how some early BTC adopters took advantage of this same strategy back around 2014. listen at 35:35:

https://dyk972he7tjqu.cloudfront.net/Tax_Planning_Strategies_Bull_Run_Tyson_Cross.mp3

the amazing thing about a tax vehicle like this is that truly behemoth, amazing amounts of appreciation can be passed down to one's heirs in a short period of time w/o paying a dime in wealth transfer tax or long term capital gains tax; you just have to hit a short term period of high appreciation. yes, i don't think CSW has any kids but i'll address that in a second. an asset like what BTC has done the last 8-11 yrs is ideal. noted luminaries who have taken advantage of GRAT's are Mark Zuckerberg and the Walton Family rumored to have passed $hundredsofmillions down to their kids. to have set one of these up back in 2010 or 2011 would have made infinite sense. yes, you do lose direct control in the interim (that's why it's called irrevocable) while the assets are in the GRAT and if you give it to a distinct family member or SO after termination of the GRAT. but if you dump the appreciated asset out of the GRAT (once it's expired) into a successor managed Trust foundation, like Northern Trust via what's called an Irrevocable “Grantor” Trust, you can retain a direct advisory role as to what is done with the money. which is the same thing as owning it; you just can't access the funds for personal use. you usually just end up giving it away to charities of your choice which in an of itself is a great source of power. key thing here is the asset is always usually liquidated for dollars once it exits the GRAT b/c one wants to retain the high appreciated value and this is all under the legal umbrella of IRS tax law where all tax (and means of tax avoidance) need to be paid and accounted for in dollars.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grat.asp

but this is exactly why CSW has been hemming and hawing about his lack of control of his BTC; from a legal standpoint, he was never allowed to have control lest the ATO deem the GRAT disqualified for breaking the rules around irrevocability and lack of control and immediately trigger a tax consequence (income most likely). i should note that there are similar vehicles other than a GRAT that he could be using, if you believe this is what he has done. but from my perspective, a GRAT would be most ideal and the Tulip Trust and all CSW's actions/equivocations around it, make sense now.
 
Last edited: