Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

 

[cypherdoc]

[doublepost=1568033363][/doublepost]getting Derek Magill onboard here is big. Roger believes in him:

 

[cypherdoc]

you see how these supposed thought leaders and visionaries are just now coming to the same conclusions almost a year after this thread.

 

[bitsko]

Roger getting it; No wonder BCH lead dev doesnt want to have to see it.

[doublepost=1568049159][/doublepost][doublepost=1568049244][/doublepost]bitcoin.com running Bitcoin Unlimited on BSV is the future I want to see.

 

[bitsko]

 

[trinoxol]

Now in times of stress, we see that BCH is 50% Core. All the hidden assumptions about blocksize, scaling, "decentralization" (whatever that means) and network incentives come to the fore.

At the same time, the BCH community does not seem unified around this. I think that's because they have many people who think BSV is right but who are turned off of BSV for social reasons. They essentially argue BSV strategy but under a different banner.

The BCH leadership must uphold these false assumptions. If they don't, they become identical to BSV and their power goes away as they are absorbed. The power of the leaders depends on their ability to tell others what to do.

Roger never seemed interested in power games to me. If I judge him right, he just wants the crypto revolution to take place. Not everyone will agree with the means he has chosen to make this happen. I appreciate his contributions to this space.

 

[AdrianX]

Now in times of stress, we see that BCH is 50% Core.

If the price of BCH ever went up high enough you'd see that over >80% of the miners who move over from BTC Core have the same attitude and mentality that lead to BTC being subverted by technocrats. They'd be happy with limits and probably activating segwit too.

 

[freetrader]

A reminder that something like 90% of total hashpower (pre BCH existence) supported bigger blocks.
Adrian is being vague on many points, but I would agree that mentality doesn't change easily.

However, exactly the same argument applies to BSV, except that already a greater majority supports the "other rules than BSV" and therefore the problem may be even more severe in case of BSV gaining miners.

We already saw small block miners trying to make a point by mining 1MB blocks on BCH chain.
This is only counteracted by the majority of the miners on the chain who support bigger blocks, and if it pays the bills proportionally more, you will find that "converted miners" from BTC will also start endorsing the natural incentives of Bitcoin.

Noting here that the BTC rhetoric of making the protocol extremely hard to change is the same technocratic "lock down the protocol" argument popularized by BSV thought leaders.
Happily, Bitcoin Cash users still realize the need for improvement and optimization of the protocol as we scale. Done right, it will give us a swift advantage.

 

[bitsko]

https://www.yours.org/content/pay-to-ip--what-is-and-why-it-s-important-8ba8bcd0e6e6

 

[79b79aa8]

Noting here that the BTC rhetoric of making the protocol extremely hard to change is the same technocratic "lock down the protocol" argument popularized by BSV thought leaders.

no, it is not even close to being "the same".

Done right, it will give us a swift advantage.

the problem rests in the "done right" part, doesn't it?
[doublepost=1568141001,1568140264][/doublepost]@Otaci @shadders can we expect an update to the BSV roadmap? will a complete spec be published? thank you.

 

[cypherdoc]

here we go with another one. how many times have many of us said block space needs to be unlimited?

 

[_bc]

If BSV starts delivering serious blockspace to the world, it's value and utility will soar, and it will attract much more hash than we have now. New players will arrive. Simultaneously, many miners will abandon BTC. It's price will fall. ALL of the new players will see the benefits of large blocks, and the end-result of small blocks. The lesson will be there for all to see.

 

[79b79aa8]

if?

 

[Norway]

Some info about David R. Allen:

 

[cypherdoc]

i haven't been able to install the latest versions of electrumSV into linux. anyone have a good guide?

 

[Zarathustra]

Looking forward to watch the discussion between the two Aussie men bad.

The swarm (aka the market) is the ruler. Not the central planners.
Steve Keen 2009:

Their empirical conclusion was just the opposite: rather than fiat money being created first and credit money following with a lag, the sequence was reversed: credit money was created first, and fiat money was then created about a year later:

“There is no evidence that either the monetary base or M1 leads the cycle, although some economists still believe this monetary myth. Both the monetary base and M1 series are generally procyclical and, if anything, the monetary base lags the cycle slightly. (p. 11)

The difference in the behavior of M1 and M2 suggests that the difference of these aggregates (M2 minus M1) should be considered… The difference of M2 — M1 leads the cycle by even more than M2, with the lead being about three quarters.” (p. 12)

Thus rather than credit money being created with a lag after government money, the data shows that credit money is created first, up to a year before there are changes in base money. This contradicts the money multiplier model of how credit and debt are created: rather than fiat money being needed to “seed” the credit creation process, credit is created first and then after that, base money changes.

(...)
Thus causation in money creation runs in the opposite direction to that of the money multiplier model: the credit money dog wags the fiat money tail. Both the actual level of money in the system, and the component of it that is created by the government, are controlled by the commercial system itself, and not by the Federal Reserve.

Central Banks around the world learnt this lesson the hard way in the 1970s and 1980s when they attempted to control the money supply, following neoclassical economist Milton Friedman’s theory of “monetarism” that blamed inflation on increases in the money supply.


http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/

 

[Niner]

i haven't been able to install the latest versions of electrumSV into linux. anyone have a good guide?

https://www.linuxbabe.com/desktop-linux/how-to-install-use-electrum-bitcoin-wallet-ubuntu

Has instructions for Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch Linux.

edit:

I guess that guide is for regular electrum, hopefully it would easily adapt to electrumSV.

 

[lunar]

Looking forward to watch the discussion between the two Aussie men bad.

Assuming you're talking about this debate?


Great discussion, between two exceptional modern economists. I can't think of a single BTC or BCH supporter, who could have held their own against Prof Keen? Fascinating exchange of ideas and well worth the 0.21$ (bsv)

Follow up blog by Prof Keen

https://www.patreon.com/posts/discussion-with-29879687

 

[cypherdoc]

Looking forward to watch the discussion between the two Aussie men bad.

The swarm (aka the market) is the ruler. Not the central planners.
Steve Keen 2009:

Their empirical conclusion was just the opposite: rather than fiat money being created first and credit money following with a lag, the sequence was reversed: credit money was created first, and fiat money was then created about a year later:

“There is no evidence that either the monetary base or M1 leads the cycle, although some economists still believe this monetary myth. Both the monetary base and M1 series are generally procyclical and, if anything, the monetary base lags the cycle slightly. (p. 11)

The difference in the behavior of M1 and M2 suggests that the difference of these aggregates (M2 minus M1) should be considered… The difference of M2 — M1 leads the cycle by even more than M2, with the lead being about three quarters.” (p. 12)

Thus rather than credit money being created with a lag after government money, the data shows that credit money is created first, up to a year before there are changes in base money. This contradicts the money multiplier model of how credit and debt are created: rather than fiat money being needed to “seed” the credit creation process, credit is created first and then after that, base money changes.

(...)
Thus causation in money creation runs in the opposite direction to that of the money multiplier model: the credit money dog wags the fiat money tail. Both the actual level of money in the system, and the component of it that is created by the government, are controlled by the commercial system itself, and not by the Federal Reserve.

Central Banks around the world learnt this lesson the hard way in the 1970s and 1980s when they attempted to control the money supply, following neoclassical economist Milton Friedman’s theory of “monetarism” that blamed inflation on increases in the money supply.


http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2009/01/31/therovingcavaliersofcredit/

great walk down memory lane. Keen was one of my favorites to follow back during the GFC and that concept was one of the key ingredients to understanding what happened. I remember miscreanity and I discussing him and his theories back here:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=35956.msg443129#msg443129
[doublepost=1568199542,1568198755][/doublepost]btw @8up is right to miss that type of discussion here. it's much more academic and analytical when we used to discuss guys like Keen, gold, and when I did more charting and price projections (iirc @8up has a charting service). but quite frankly, it's alot of work and I don't feel the urgency to teach or debate others like when it was more critical for Bitcoins success back in the early days. imo, Bitcoin of one sha256 form or another has made it; we're going on 11y. and 2020, my mission accomplished year, is right around the corner. my, time goes fast.
[doublepost=1568200294][/doublepost]otoh, what we discuss here today is also important game theory wise and at this stage of Bitcoin's career. it's important to understand the politics and tribalness if you will. much info can be gleaned even from that process. after all, this forum and many others have been infiltrated by saboteurs of one kind or another. we've known for a while now that certain NSA- like tactics are being employed across the space. so you either become aware or be square.

 

[cypherblock]

https://www.yours.org/content/pay-to-ip--what-is-and-why-it-s-important-8ba8bcd0e6e6

Nothing wrong with direct payment. I could see this used across a number of competing coins even. We used to have Bip70 which perhaps wasn't used much (now deprecated), but did allow for direct person to merchant communication. Direct to IP is fine, although for mobile phones may present some challenges. Bluetooth and NFC are other options of course.
[doublepost=1568202079][/doublepost]

it's important to understand the politics and tribalness if you will. much info can be gleaned even from that process. after all, this forum and many others have been infiltrated by saboteurs of one kind or another. we've known for a while now that certain NSA- like tactics are being employed across the space. so you either become aware or be square.

Understand the tribalness or directly and frequently make tribal like statements? Haven't seen much of a dialectic here recently, sorry to say.