Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cbeast]

Cash is a tiny fraction of total debt/credit. How do you counterfeit credit?

Credit isn't money, but they want you to think it is. It's easily abused and fraudulently created. People are bullied by phoney institutions like credit agencies when the only money recognised by the US Constitution (and others) is legal tender. Certainly governments that assess their net worth take fake credit as money into consideration. Pretty much everything nowadays is based on counterfeit money created by quantitative analysts.

 

[Zarathustra]

In the real world, your bank account is money, and it is debt/credit, and you can pay your invoices with that money, whether you like it or not.

When you are buying a house and request a credit from the bank to pay the house, you create money (=debt).

 

[Richy_T]

It kinda hinges on the definition of money which is a bit context dependent. If you do a service for me, I could give you gold, dollars, bitcoin or write a check. All are subtly different and fit more or less definitions of money than others. Dollars are especially tricky because of the obfuscation of what they represent. They look a bit like bitcoin and gold but are closer to being a fungible check.

 

[pafkatabg]

Money is gold, and nothing else.

John Pierpont Morgan Sr. on December 18, 1912 while testifying before Congress.

Well, there was no bitcoin at that time. BSV coins are useful and valuable, because they are backed by a commodity known as "blockspace". It's the most valuable commodity known to man, because you can use it to record the most important thing - Information!

 

[Zarathustra]

The economy did not start with gold or any other commodity like grain, bronze, silver, cattle etc.
Debt is much older, and, in contrast to those commodities and as the all-pervading thing of the economy, still alive and well:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-489#post-17874

 

[pafkatabg]

Zarathustra,
I agree that debt is the first ever currency created in the history of mankind. However, it's getting dicey and unclear how to define what's money.. Moreover, I am not a native English speaker, but I definitely see differences between money and currency. I am sure that we can agree that for example USD is a currency , but definitely not money. Perhaps, BSV will define for the first time what's money ?

 

[Zarathustra]

Yes, money is a weasel word. Some claim that the thing that makes debt transferable (USD, gold, Bitcoin) is money, and others claim that debt itself is money. But one thing is obvious to me: The medium of exchange will never make debt/credit/interest obsolete. It is THE driver and the foundation of the economy. No debt - no economy.

Bitcoin does not stop debt
No cryptocurrency can. No system ever will. Debt is contractual. Unless you ban all contracts, debt exists, and to ban all contracts means to ban all trade. (Craig Wright)

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Richy_T]

The medium of exchange will never make debt/credit/interest obsolete.

This is not really very insightful though. I would say that only the naive would believe it would.

 

[Norway]

What the f*ck is FVNI?

It's short for "Full Validating Node Implementation".

Is it the person David R. Allen? Or is it a secret organisation handling funds donated to BCH development? Both?

@solex seems to know what it is, based on recent dialog in the BU slack general channel. Please tell us what's going on.

According to advertising of BCH funding, they handle general donations and specific donations to ABC, Bcash and BCHD. If BU is supposed to receive parts of "general donations", the BU part is handled by FVNI now.

Old info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/by6ugv/salty_roger_ver_reads_this_forums_we_ask_for/

Update:
https://www.yours.org/content/over-2-months-after-they-were-warned--babies-are-finally-worried-about-285a5ce78972
[doublepost=1566530327][/doublepost]I never understood who David and Philippa was back in the days. They sort of popped up from nowhere and were very convenient when they took care of the logistics of the Arnhem convention.

Convenient logistic-solving people also popped up when organising the Tokyo conference. I think @Mengerian has the closest relation to these people.

 

[Zarathustra]

This is not really very insightful though. I would say that only the naive would believe it would.

There's the narrative among crypto fans and Austrians that so called 'sound money' will replace debt/credit. The reality is: Debt/credit is the starter and the foundation of the economy. It's not barter. Never has been and never will be.

 

[cbeast]

Credit and debt may not go away, but it might go back to sound banking practices like George Bailey. Will Craig get his wings?

 

[freetrader]

An orange suit maybe, he could always imagine it's a wingsuit.

 

[Norway]

Small-block news outlet CCN.COM is starting to wake up and smell the coffee.
https://www.ccn.com/craig-wright-bitcoin-white-paper-ssrn-says-i-am-satoshi-nakamoto/

Background for the story is that Craig have uploaded his whitepaper to SSRN and they have approved it:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3440802
[doublepost=1566567529][/doublepost]Time for the Swedish Nobel Committee to consider Craig Wright.

 

[kostialevin]

I'm not an expert in PDF... but here I see 3 dates:

<xmp:CreateDate>2008-01-24T11:33:15-06:00</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2008-05-21T19:43:08+01:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2008-05-21T19:43:08+01:00</xmp:MetadataDate>

4!
2008/10/29-16:58:49 on the second line.

 

[Norway]

@kostialevin
Yes, I just downloaded the pdf and checked myself. I'm not a PDF expert too, but I didn't find a single mention of 2009 in the data. Creation date is january 24th, 2008 according to the meta data.

<xmp:CreateDate>2008-01-24T11:33:15-06:00</xmp:CreateDate>

[doublepost=1566572722][/doublepost]But I don't think SSRN used PDF metadata to verify, because anyone can put any data in a PDF.

From the CCN-interview:

Wright told CCN that "people have validated my LLM and found that my 2007 proposal includes parts of the whitepaper."

 

[freetrader]

$ sha256sum SSRN-id3440802.pdf
697271ae8c420cfef3a92a1e0ddf5558cc1489656124f094aa3e5ddc6e3a020d SSRN-id3440802.pdf

That's the archived SSRN version from jimmy007forsure's tweet, before one with modified metadata was apparently uploaded later after the discrepancy was already found and being discussed on Twitter. (see mykarmicdream tweet below)

I clearly see the 2009 creation date in the data.
Too bad, another bad forgery attempt.

$ pdftk SSRN-id3440802.pdf dump_data
InfoKey: Creator
InfoValue: Writer
InfoKey: Title
InfoValue: Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
InfoKey: Producer
InfoValue: OpenOffice.org 2.4
InfoKey: Author
InfoValue: Craig Steven Wright
InfoKey: Keywords
InfoValue: Bitcoin; Blockchain; law; smart contract; time chain; immutable
InfoKey: Subject
InfoValue: Bitcoin, a peer to peer cash system
InfoKey: ModDate
InfoValue: D:20080521194308+01'00'
InfoKey: CreationDate
InfoValue: D:20090324113315-06'00'
PdfID0: ca1ba44bd542453bef918ffcd46dc4
PdfID1: 4ef98472dbf1a648b97b8d107724950
NumberOfPages: 9

 

[bitsko]

What the f*ck is FVNI?

It's short for "Full Validating Node Implementation".

Is it the person David R. Allen? Or is it a secret organisation handling funds donated to BCH development? Both?

@solex seems to know what it is, based on recent dialog in the BU slack general channel. Please tell us what's going on.

According to advertising of BCH funding, they handle general donations and specific donations to ABC, Bcash and BCHD. If BU is supposed to receive parts of "general donations", the BU part is handled by FVNI now.

Old info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/by6ugv/salty_roger_ver_reads_this_forums_we_ask_for/

Update:
https://www.yours.org/content/over-2-months-after-they-were-warned--babies-are-finally-worried-about-285a5ce78972
[doublepost=1566530327][/doublepost]I never understood who David and Philippa was back in the days. They sort of popped up from nowhere and were very convenient when they took care of the logistics of the Arnhem convention.

Convenient logistic-solving people also popped up when organising the Tokyo conference. I think @Mengerian has the closest relation to these people.

afaik, these are behind the scenes 'BCH team orange' folk, non coder that got access to amaurys 'meritocratic' inner circle

Also curious how Wecx managed the BU funds.

 

[Norway]

Beautiful!
(And funny)

 

[AdrianX]

I'm not an expert in PDF... but here I see 3 dates:

<xmp:CreateDate>2008-01-24T11:33:15-06:00</xmp:CreateDate>
<xmp:ModifyDate>2008-05-21T19:43:08+01:00</xmp:ModifyDate>
<xmp:MetadataDate>2008-05-21T19:43:08+01:00</xmp:MetadataDate>

4!
2008/10/29-16:58:49 on the second line.

I can make a PDF to say whatever you want. It's a Postscript file, you can't trust any of the security features. You can trust a Hash published to the blockchain that shows that version hasn't been edited.

People edit files every day fo many reasons.