Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

watchtowers all by themselves have always been considered insanity. now, layering on an altcoin? geez, devs gotta dev (and get paid for it even if it means an altcoin) in full force.

 

[bitsko]

Haipo Yang supposedly is not giving the option for BSV payouts.

 

[bitsko]

Does Amaury Sechet cause everything to slowly collapse around him by destroying relationships?

People honestly still think he can direct a ledger's development to become global money?

This is Bitcoin Unlimited's benevolent dictator?

 

[Norway]

Haipo Yang supposedly is not giving the option for BSV payouts.

He may want to keep them for himself. Or dump it on Coinex. Hard to tell.

 

[79b79aa8]

now, layering on an altcoin?

layering on an anon altcoin. some people are not paying attention.

Remind me again why I haven't dumped my remaining BTC yet?

can't find many reasons . . .

the threats against BTC are credible. in spite of the opportunity cost, prudent, "loyal" BTC miners ought to be testing how much hash is prepared to defend the BSV chain. they should be concerned with determining what proportion of the ~92% SHA256 hashrate currently mining BTC is a fifth column. the original game theory according to which it is not in the interest of a miner to control majority hash of a given network is not presently in force.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Regarding CSW's lastest blog post: https://craigwright.net/blog/law-regulation/monetary-law-and-blockchains/

He accuses Coincenter to misquote FinCEN's guidance, to prove his point he refers to Section 4.5.1 (a) about anonymizing services provider.

But the Coincenter's article is about 4.5.1 (b) Anonymizing software provider.
https://coincenter.org/link/non-custodial-cryptocurrency-mixer-developers-are-not-subject-to-u-s-regulation

For reference, FinCEN's guidance :
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN CVC Guidance FINAL.pdf

CoinCenter's article is factually correct. CSW is attacking them wrongly.
FinCEN's guidance doesn't support his claim about developers being at risk, quite the contrary.

Is this dishonesty or a mistake?

 

[cypherdoc]

>CoinCenter's article is factually correct. CSW is attacking them wrongly.
FinCEN's guidance doesn't support his claim about developers being at risk, quite the contrary.

i agree with your analysis.

 

[rocks]

It's going to take some careful timing to not be leaving funds on an exchange for too long but also, not to get caught in the stampede when fees get crazy.

It's reached the point where it is actually safer to keep your coins on a trustable exchange than in your own wallet. On an exchange you have instant liquidity, but coins in your wallet could be trapped and have limited liquidity. The market is definitely not pricing in liquidity risk here as it usually does for other assets, but this is likely due to the fact that most of the BTC market consists of speculators who do not actually use Bitcoin.

 

[Zarathustra]

Is the bitcoin.com wallet a software of a software provider or a service of a service provider?

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

>CoinCenter's article is factually correct. CSW is attacking them wrongly.
FinCEN's guidance doesn't support his claim about developers being at risk, quite the contrary.

i agree with your analysis.

Not really.

What fincen says: developers of software which is used for mixing are no money transmitter.

What coincenter says: wallet developers of wassabi or samurai are legal. This would be OK, if the devs just provide pure software. But imho - I don't know exactly - the devs of wassabi and / or samurai earn from mixing, participate / provide service for it.

Now coincenter days 'non custodial' services are exempt, which is a bit far of from 'developers are free' , especially when you read the part about dapps in the fincen paper (are non custodial interface provider, but fall under regulation).

Things like cash shuffle or join market are in between .. I guess permanently providing mixing liquidity with electron is not safe to be exempt.

Bte: I wonder if moneybutton will need a licence and do kyc ..

 

[Zarathustra]

The Sirtaki:


The Satoshi:

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Not really.

What fincen says: developers of software which is used for mixing are no money transmitter.

What coincenter says: wallet developers of wassabi or samurai are legal. This would be OK, if the devs just provide pure software. But imho - I don't know exactly - the devs of wassabi and / or samurai earn from mixing, participate / provide service for it.

Now coincenter days 'non custodial' services are exempt, which is a bit far of from 'developers are free' , especially when you read the part about dapps in the fincen paper (are non custodial interface provider, but fall under regulation).

Things like cash shuffle or join market are in between .. I guess permanently providing mixing liquidity with electron is not safe to be exempt.

Bte: I wonder if moneybutton will need a licence and do kyc ..

One of main CSW's leitmotiv is that Anoncoins such as Monero will be banned and that their developpers will be prosecuted.

CSW try to rely on this guidance to defend his point about "nothing but BSV is legal" but this doesn't work well since FinCEN guidance doesn't support this standpoint at all.

And the fact that CSW is angry at people who argue based on the FinCEN guidance reflects poorly on CSW.

 

[Zarathustra]

CoinCenter's article is factually correct. CSW is attacking them wrongly.
FinCEN's guidance doesn't support his claim about developers being at risk, quite the contrary.

Is this dishonesty or a mistake?

Word "developers" not found. Is this a mistake?

 

[Norway]

Boom, 12% up, independently of the altcoin market.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

One of main CSW's leitmotiv is that Anoncoins such as Monero will be banned and that their developpers will be prosecuted.

CSW try to rely on this guidance to defend his point about "nothing but BSV is legal" but this doesn't work well since FinCEN guidance doesn't support this standpoint at all.

And the fact that CSW is angry at people who argue based on the FinCEN guidance reflects poorly on CSW.

Yes, he sometimes says that being part of a distributed community of developers doesn't protect from law. I can't remember him saying that monero devs will get into trouble, though.

CSW is angry on everybody, so no wonder that he is angry on CoinCenter too. He also seems not to have to time to read everything penibly, I guess he mostly flies over the things and pushed most toward where his theories / ideas are.

I also guess he is not pedantic with the words legal and illegal. For him its a high-level, abstract concept, in which things which are legal today are illegal, because in the past conceptually similar things have become illegal.

Also he doesn't seem to sharply discriminate between "illegal" and "regulated to death". For example, it seems that Monero or other privacy coins will not be made illegal in the west - at least not as long as the nation states keep control over financial systems - but there are indications that it will be regulated to a level which makes it impossible for many exchanges to handle it. The small number of exchanges left will be forced to closely watch customers with XMR in and outflow, they will be perfect honeypots, and the monero users will face a growing scrutinity to proof exchanges where they have their funds from. CSW mentioned this when he said that using monero doesn't protect, but violates your privacy ...

You should also note that he wrote this blog post at a time in which his kleiman lawsuit becomes increasingly uncomfortable (at least this is what's my impression). I wonder how he finds the time (and nerves) to write such blog posts. I would be somehow ironic, if CSW ends up with refusing to accept US law, after all that "law is law, we are friendly to law and government" talk. Would confirm my good old thesis that you are best in doing something when you demand the oposite (like the German SPD decreasing welfare states and so on).

 

[Norway]

@Christoph Bergmann

I would be somehow ironic, if CSW ends up with refusing to accept US law, after all that "law is law, we are friendly to law and government" talk.

I don't think CSW want to settle the Ira Kleiman dispute out of court in a mediation. And I don't think he will accept USA as jurisdiction.

See Richard Schultz' analysis;

June 18th will set the stage for the next round of legal action. If Dr. Wright accepts jurisdiction and attends court the case will take place in the US, otherwise (and by all indications the more likely) default may be granted and the case would then arrive at the shores of the UK.

Source:
https://www.yours.org/content/dr-craig-wright-confirms-he-mined-the-first-70-bitcoin-blocks-6d06fdd34fca#

Law is not US law.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Word "developers" not found. Is this a mistake?

In hus penultimate blog post ( https://craigwright.net/blog/law-regulation/feign-madness-but-keep-your-balance/ ) :

What developers fail to see is that being part of a social network or an open-source project does not exempt you from law. All it does is remove the protections of a corporate structure. As a developer, you can be liable for the actions of other developers in the group. The same has occurred before, and actions on distributed developer groups including criminal cases date to the 1990s.

As per 4.5.1 (b) Anonymizing software provider, this seems pretty clearly not the case concerning developers.

 

[Norway]

I'm giving you a Tone Vays prediction now:
BSV will break out once more within 3 hours, unless it doesn't.

 

[79b79aa8]

I think there's one last rally in it yet.

as a collectible

 

[Richy_T]

Well, my thinking is that the last rally died out before real pain could be felt so there are a lot of people who don't really understand (and given the censorship on Theymos controlled forums, that's understandable) what's actually at issue here. Until it really starts hurting, the usual speculation pressures and FOMO still apply.