Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

79b79aa8

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2015
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I don't have any interest in shutting down Bitcoin Cash's competition nor stifle debate.
I believe free (libre) and open systems like BCH will eat permissioned blockchain's lunch.
And "permissioned" includes trying to charge for every patented brainfart of what one could do with a blockchain.
@freetrader there must very good reasons for your consistent hostility to IP. your caveats around this issue are very present in my mind at least.

yet the contrast between (a) nchain's methodic, long-term, deeply vested, economic driven strategy for BSV and (b) ABC's haphazard, engineer driven non-strategy for BCH, could not be any sharper. who is more likely to be improvising here?

and while you may find reasons to clap, others' outrage at BU members' having the audacity to discuss alternatives to BCH, and the estimation that BU's democratic decision-making process is a sad joke riddled with absurd votes -- as judged by one person's superior insight, so clearly demonstrated in the field -- are gigantic red flags about the direction BCH has taken.
 
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freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
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@79b79aa8

I'm not at all outraged about BU members discussing "alternatives to BCH".
I do it myself on this very thread, all the time. So that allegation is a red herring. I've not tried to shut down anyone on this thread, I couldn't even. I've ignored certain people to increase my own enjoyment of following this thread, yet I often investigate their comments to see if they perchance posted something worthwhile.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/b5ahq6/bch_lead_developer_amaury_séchet_leaves_bitcoin/ejdcd2i/

If it isn't clear that I don't share Amaury's dour pessimism on the state of BU voting (or its membership roster), then let it be clear henceforth.

His "sad joke" comment was what the clickbait headline news sites picked up from his post, which is a pity, but alas. It is not what I would "clap" for, but rather the certain integrity he is displaying in this act of resignation which I find worthy of recognition.
 
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imaginary_username

Active Member
Aug 19, 2015
101
174
@freetrader hats off to you for persisting this in thread when most sensible people have left it alone. I have no intention to leave BU or stop doing what I can to improve both the implementation and p2p money in general - but at some point you gotta draw a line and leave the worthless trolls to their own devices.

There are only so many hours in a day and only so many years in a man's life, while the capacity of unproductive people to drag you down is infinite. The thread had its days, I'll recommend just letting it go, there are better places to bounce ideas.
 

freetrader

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Dec 16, 2015
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yet the contrast between (a) nchain's methodic, long-term, deeply vested, economic driven strategy for BSV and (b) ABC's haphazard, engineer driven non-strategy for BCH, could not be any sharper. who is more likely to be improvising here?
Not a tough question for me to answer, given that (a) I disagree with your characterization of the two processes, and (b) people refer to Craig's blog posts when asked e.g. what the deal is with P2SH in future. Versus I am able to point at a relatively coherent and comprehensible roadmap for the ABC client.

I don't place project roadmaps on an absolute pedestal either -- they are subject to revision and external inputs from the wider community -- for example BU is driven by relatively frequent votes of its members, which make a long term outlook difficult to characterize in terms of individual features. Not least of all because the membership constitution of BU may change.
 
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79b79aa8

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Sep 22, 2015
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@freetrader i didn't mean to say you were outraged, or that you have a problem with BU voting. your position on that has been totally clear. i edited my post to reflect this ("others' outrage") but it was too late to avert misunderstanding.
 

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
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@imaginary_username Forgive me a certain irrational passion when it comes to participation in this forum. This thread and forum has been a good home for several years.
But in the last few days I have already resolved to voice my opinion more on other channels, so rest assured your advice does not fall on deaf ears.
That said, I consider that an open discourse is of greatest importance to the healthy development of the protocol.

@79b79aa8 understood, semantic collisions happen but nothing that didn't buff out.
re: "there must very good reasons for your consistent hostility to IP", I believe so. Maybe someday I'll outline my thinking about this on Honest Cash.
 
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sken

New Member
Nov 22, 2017
24
20
@freetrader the problem with BU is that it has been taken over by people that bring nothing to the table but division.

people like @cypherdoc questioning your contributions is just rich. All in all this is the biggest problem of BU, its inability to act on its own interests. They dropped the ball massively when they had the chance to be the reference client for BCH. If BU is not interested in leading and taking that responsibility then thats fine. But some its members shouldn't act offended when someone else does. ABC took the heat and the risk during these years and some people in here do nothing but criticizing them. Doing this from the comfort of their seats where very little is expected from them
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
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>the problem with BU is that it has been taken over by people that bring nothing to the table but division. people like @cypherdoc questioning your contributions is just rich.

lol, *I'm not a BU member*. @freetrader started off by clapping at @deadalnix Medium post when @deadalnix makes a big deal about resigning from BU when he's been functionally resigned ever since he joined. the only reason @freetrader has been back pedaling and pandering to the crowd here is because I'm the only one around here with the balls to call him out. I also didn't see him defending BU members yesterday in that ridiculous r/btc post by Silverblood also bashing BU. he only cared enough to respond to me coming to BU's defense, yet again in hostile territory despite not being a member, with my CTOR hypothetical/sarcasm and tried to twist that into something nefarious on my part. get a life.
 
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cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,994
of course @freetrader's got to defend the major ass kissing that @deadalnix gave him in that article as the sole voice of reason within BU. what a joke.

like I said, ABC supporters anger is misplaced : they don't hate BU, they hate GCBU. there's my new meme:

"Don't hate on BU, hate GCBU"-cypherdoc

you're welcome.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,994
ABC took the heat and the risk during these years and some people in here do nothing but criticizing them. D
yet another mischaracterization. sure, the ABC devs took their part of the heat but you forget about all the BU members along with guys like me on the ground who fought the hand to hand battles in r/Bitcoin and r/btc and here that made it all happen in the first place and sustained the movement until @deadalnix started fucking up behind his silence and dictatorial moves like jamming CTOR through, ignoring other implementation devs, working to ensure the split via collusion, and the coup de grace of 10 block rolling checkpoints and now Avalanche. oh yeah, ABC did their part all right.
 

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
@freetrader hats off to you for persisting this in thread when most sensible people have left it alone. I have no intention to leave BU or stop doing what I can to improve both the implementation and p2p money in general - but at some point you gotta draw a line and leave the worthless trolls to their own devices.

There are only so many hours in a day and only so many years in a man's life, while the capacity of unproductive people to drag you down is infinite. The thread had its days, I'll recommend just letting it go, there are better places to bounce ideas.
Peak arrogance? Most sensible people are still here. @rocks even returned. Those who endure only echo chambers have fled. Yes, hats off to @freetrader!
 
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cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,994
I know you think I've gone off the rails of conspiracy theory with @freetrader. and of course I can't be sure. but let's look at my reasoning:

he joins this thread Dec 2015. I remember it clearly. new, inexperienced coder just learning Bitcoin. he becomes mod here. hey Carl Force did it. as OP of this thread, I've always been on high alert for a TPTB conspirator infesting himself into the thread. why not? this is the longest active thread that I'm aware of in Bitcoin, except for maybe some mining threads on BCT, and maybe not even those. this IS the epicenter of the big block movement with highly intelligent contributors with experience in real business. we started BU and were promptly banned from BCT. that act made me sure that TPTB had infiltrated that forum. it makes perfect sense that an attacker, ala silk road, might try to divide Bitcoin using here as a focal point. hey, you're a threat. he sees that a big block hard fork would play well with everyone here, so he leads one Aug 2017. with replay protection which ensures a split. then he inexplicably stops contributing Dec 2017 after making a minor commit. split accomplished and dilution achieved. he said he left for other interests. really? for all the time he spends here, what could be more important than maintaining ABC? everything is going well and all big blockers are onboard at that point. furthermore, I'm not aware of a single ABC, BU, XT or major BTC core dev that has bothered to retain their anonymity despite early day attempts to vigorously defend it. why should they feel a need to? Bitcoin's legal, devving's legal, famous people own it . the problem with revealing your identity as a Bitcoin dev is that certainly people will look into your past. maybe he left early because he didn't want that to happen and the split was well underway? and then his rather vicious attacks started on CSW last summer fall who had decided to "really" return Bitcoin to its original vision with no limit in the future. I'm sure that's made alot of TPTB very unhappy. btw, there's no way I believe @freetrader is only now beginning to post on r/btc again as u/ftrader given how frequently he posts here and how vocally against CSW he has been. u/Zectro anyone? also, look at the way he responds to questions. evasive as hell as well as arrogant and pedantic which in my experience I get when people are trying to hide something. if someone asks you when was the last time you made a "commit", would you give them a date for something you just stored on your private server? no. clearly I was asking about a public commit to either the ABC or BU repo. and I stand by the fact that he knew I was inquiring about ABC since I've brought up questions about his early ABC termination in the past with him and the context of the reddit thread discussion. so, imo, he lies to me with March 22 to get me off his back not thinking I'd look into it. so instead of clarifying what still could be my mistake with an immediate concise explanation, he decides to play with me with hashes and words like "infrastructure" and send me digging into both the ABC and BU repos looking for his commits. I have to call him a liar before he admits its a private repo. who does that? one of the strengths of this thread that I've always pushed in my own way is for everyone to be frank, honest, helpful, and to the point. we pretty much live up to that. he is none of these, at least with me. so yeah, just like many of the other trolls/infiltrators into this thread of the past, I will continue to get in his face because of his behavior and past suspicious actions.
and as for the rest of you, be honest with yourselves, this is the kind of truth/drama that keeps bringing you back here so stayed tuned! I laugh at the @imaginary_username's of the world who will be right back here with you. you can't help yourselves :)

finally if I'm wrong, I apologize. but now you know the reasons why I'm suspicious, valid or not. but of everyone in here, he's the guy.
 
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Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797

until @deadalnix started fucking up behind his silence and dictatorial moves like jamming CTOR through, ignoring other implementation devs, working to ensure the split via collusion, and the coup de grace of 10 block rolling checkpoints and now Avalanche. oh yeah, ABC did their part all right.
I guess he is just the visible face of his (intransparent, hidden) sponsorship that fucked up. I don't believe for a second that he personally has the dictatorial power.
 
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bitsko

Active Member
Aug 31, 2015
730
1,532
I made a sincere effort to vote bitcoin leftists into the BU organization and now some like todu are copycat protest exiting, in typical leftist fashion.

At least IM_Uname will stay as a representative of leftist multicoiner ideals