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satoshis_sockpuppet

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Feb 22, 2016
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BS doesn't give a shit about their retarded (rented) satellite (bandwidth), that's just a marketing gimmick to give the impression of a working company of visionaries.

There is no "Bitcoin satellite" and the blocksize is definitely not a problem for satellite internet at this point.

But maybe you are on to something here and this will become their next argument: "A blocksize increase will destroy Bitcoins outer space infrastructure". lol
 
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Christoph Bergmann

Christoph Bergmann

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Dec 24, 2015
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satoshis_sockpuppet said:
I came to the conclusion that they are just a bunch of crazy loudmouths with a control fetish. Worked pretty well for them for a long time but finally people start to realize that they were duped by a bunch of fanatics. I don't really believe in any great conspiracies in regards to core/blockstream at this point. Adam Back has a good track record of running companies into the ground and not seeing the big picture and he's continuing to do so.

I guess BS has some problems with their investors now. The satellite bullshit (fuck you Adam, you marketing snake) is a desperate attempt to stay relevant with an absolute uninteresting bullshit project. Anything else they promised is less than vaporware.

P.S. @Christoph Bergmann Bitcoin.de is listed on http://nob2x.org/ , I suspect, that this isn't correct?
Click to expand...
Core and friends have an adorable propaganda machine. Remember the SegWit-activation table on the bitcoin-wiki? Everybody who did not explicitly and loudly speak against UASF, was tagged under "accepted." Even Pieter Wuille, who explicitly and loudly spoke against UASF ("You are crazy, Luke") was tagged in dark green as "wished" because he was fizzled into saying something like "If everybody would do this, I'd be ok with it."

No2x is the opposite of the segwit table: Everybody who does not explicitly and loudly support SegWit2x is on the list. So it's more or less everybody except the companies which signed an agreement to run SegWit2x.

Bitcoin.de did not sign such an agreement nor does it guarantee in any way to run SegWit2x. Bitcoin.de serves nobody but its users. They did not promise anybody (and I guess they will not do this ever) to go SegWit2x no matter what. The Bitcoin Cash fork made it easy for Bitcoin.de. Right now it is an altcoin and there is consensus to list it as one. SegWit2x means that two sides will battle about the abbreviation "BTC" and that exchanges need to make a decision. This is a very sensible issue. I think Bitcoin.de will be happy if everybody agrees that SegWit2x as the majority hashrate chain is BTC. But Bitcoin.de prefers that the customers make this decision.

Technically this might make Bitcoin.de part of "nob2x". But not in a sense of opposition to SegWit2x, rather in "no unconditional support pledge".
 
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satoshis_sockpuppet

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Feb 22, 2016
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@Christoph Bergmann

bitcoin.de (as any other exchange / marketplace) should write a clear statement under their terms of agreement, how Bitcoin is defined for them. Chain with most SHA256 work from genesis block xxx. (Which will be SW2X or with a much lower chance BCC).

It's the only sane way to handle this stuff imho. Listing Bitcoin cash is very cool and a great move by bitcoin.de but it's an altcoin (atm), SW2X won't be.
 
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Christoph Bergmann

Christoph Bergmann

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@satoshis_sockpuppet It's not that simple, unfortunately. I agree with you that it would help if exchanges and so on step out of the dark and recognize SegWit2x economy-wide. However, as an exchange or a marketplace, you can only loose. Bitcoin.de is a mid-sized trading platform which has been an integral part of german bitcoin community since 2011. It has a lot of longterm customers, some are pro SegWit2x, some are pure Core (and somehow fanatical). Same goes with the internal team. Some are more pro bigger blocks, some are against, but everybody agrees that Bitcoin.de has to serve its customers and not trade the wrong coin as BTC. It is, as I said, not an easy problem ... Imho it could be nice to make a public statement explaining it like I did.

But usually Bitcoin.de prefers to not spread uncertainty and not become a target of FUD and trolls. Most of the stuff still hopes that there will be no "contentious fork moment", be it that 1) Core-fans move over to S2X, be it 2) S2X stopps the for. If neither of it happens, Bitcoin.de will publish some info.
 
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satoshis_sockpuppet

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Feb 22, 2016
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Well, tbh that sounds like luke-jr's "community consensus". I'm really astonished, that exchanges are so naive about the legal implications.
If I'm a company dealing with costumers funds, I would like to be 100 % clear what the hell people are buying on my market place. Your statement sounds like "we'll decide what you buy at our platform on a day to day basis", which will piss off somebody sooner or later and lead to a lawsuit. (That's the real "You can only lose")
If Bitcoin.de decides to not follow SW2X if "Core-fans" don't "move over", what do they follow? The chain, that's detected as valid by code run from the github repository "Bitcoin core"?

It's really astonishing to see how blue-eyed businesses operate in this field. They sell something they can't define.

And I would avoid a marketplace/exchange that's not clear about their intentions in case of an upcoming hardfork, that, btw, is supported by nearly 100% of the Bitcoin HP and major companies like Coinbase, Bitpay etc.
 
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Christoph Bergmann

Christoph Bergmann

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Yes, I know, as I said, for exchanges this is a loose-loose-loose game. If you decide today to support SegWit2x, some customers will leave. If you decide today to not suppoprt SegWit2x, some customers will leave. If you don't decide, some people like you get upset. Sorry for this.

TBH I don't know what Bitcoin.de will do in case of a "contentious" hardfork to SegWit2x. I guess - and hope, but can't promise - that if the clear majority of hashrate is on the side of SW2X and it is clear that it is not the Core phantasy of "rogue miners rebelling against economic majority", that this will be BTC. But deciding now what BTC will be, is just reckless against the customers.

I'm aware that there is some game theory mechanics with opposing incentives. It would be better for the whole ecosystem, if every exchange would clearly support SegWit2x now, but it is better for the exchanges to not do. Why do you think no exchange that did not sign the agreement has come out in clear support for SW2X? Because it is better for them (and their customers) to keep both doors open. Sorry to say this, but exchanges act in rational selfish actors or as the gateway to the rational selfish action of customers. Sometimes it is bad for the whole, if everybody acts selfish, but market theory says that it is better to let everybody act selfish. So let it be.

What Bitcoin.de does is the opposite of Luke-JRs consensus. Luke says "Le consensus, c'est moi". Bitcoin.de says: "We can't decide it, at least not now, without setting our customer's funds and our reputation at risk." Luke thinks he can force consensus, Bitcoin.de thinks it cannot and must not set consensus.
 
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awemany

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Aug 19, 2015
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Some recent /r/Bitcoin headlines:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-20/marc-faber-age-cyber-terrorism-every-investor-must-own-gold

Technology behind bitcoin could replace physical gold trading
--
According to Zero Hedge, 'When the Lights Go Out, Bitcoin Goes Too' but not anymore thanks to the new GBS (Global Blockstream Satellite system)
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What should new users do to stand strong vs SegWit2x?
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Q: how many of the NYA signers knew that the 2XHF would come without replay protection? If they knew, would they have signed?
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83% of ViaBTC's hash power is mining on the Bcash chain right now, how is that not breaking the intent of the NYA?
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In case you still didn't believe it: Antpool = Viabtc conclusive proof.
--

Can't help but smile at this.
 
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Roger_Murdock

Roger_Murdock

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Dec 17, 2015
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It's really interesting to see both hard-core Core trolls and many staunch "big blockers" actively rooting for the failure of SegWit2x. From the Krawisz-ian perspective (which I share), I suppose it doesn't really matter whether 2x happens -- or at least it doesn't matter as much. As I said earlier, the main chain will either get scaling or a chain that provides scaling (like Bitcoin Cash) will become the main chain. But should we have a preference? Well, if you're someone who's gone "all-in" on Bitcoin Cash (or heavily rebalanced your portfolio in that direction), I suppose it's now in your interests for the BTC chain to not follow through with 2x. In fact, you want that chain to be as dysfunctional as possible to accelerate the "Cashening" (maybe you're now trolling the forums and suggesting the BTC chain should decrease its limit to 300kb).

Ok, but assuming you're still (like me) on the sidelines, holding mostly equal balances of Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Settlement/ BCore / Bitcoin Junior (there's still some uncertainty regarding the nomenclature), what should you want in that case? Well, purely from a schadenfreude perspective, I want to see the Cashening. But I still wonder if the main chain getting its shit together (with 2x obviously being only the first step) wouldn't be the healthiest and least disruptive path for the ecosystem. I guess I'm just not convinced that having the economically-dominant version of the ledger commit suicide via continued gross mismanagement is a good thing. Then again, per anti-fragility, the more "disruptive" path might ultimately be the healthiest.
 
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Norway

Norway

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Sep 29, 2015
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I'm launching two excellent terms for what is going to happen:

The Constipationing: When the Segwit-chain becomes unusable for most uses. Even for traders trying to on- and off-ramp exchanges.

The Cashetherening: When Bitcoin Cash is larger than Ethereum in market cap.

(Ok, they are not as good as @Erdogan 's The Cashening. But I'm getting there, right? Maybe I could get a PR job for Blockstream with my current skillz?)

EDIT: And how about that slogan "Cash is king"?
 
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