Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[awemany]

... so the huge volume for BCC as visible for example on https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/, is that (mostly) real?

From my above posts, I guess you can see that I have a mid-term bearish sentiment due to the divide-and-conquer effect, but if this volume is real, might this be a glimpse of the the flippening indeed happening?!

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

We shall soon see if Satoshi was right and mines are profit driven or if he was wrong and miners are loyal (to Core and/or the NY agreement) and would be willing to profit less.
[doublepost=1503091021][/doublepost]It looks like BitClub has more hashrate on BCC now (or they were lucky) and according to ViaBTCs homepage they have more than doubeled their hashrate from what it was this morning.

Pool.Bitcoin.com's BCC hashrate rose from >1ph to 3 or 5 ph, last time I checked.

The smell of a flippening is in the air.

 

[freetrader]

Please do it Luke-jr, it would resolve a huge problem.

You'd add another feather in your UASF cap.

 

[solex]

@freetrader. The UASF caps are so last month.
It must be time for Luke to go full retro with a User Accepted PoW-Change tricorn hat.

 

[Norway]

@Norway:


But the huge amount of ignorance and stupidity is the clay that makes the nitroglycerin stable.
And the current happy feeling of a rising price is the padded wooden crate around the dynamite sticks.

IOW: It is not just a minor explosion, the stuff is being produced and stacked and stacked and stacked, since the whole shenanigans around blocksize began.

I think the wheat will separate from the chaff when we get into a bear market. That will hit Bitcoin from multiple angles and finally light the fuse on this.

Maybe Bitcoin will survive this and finally break free, but I do not at all think that this is a given.

I think that if you are TPTB, you'd orchestrate what is going on right now, but you keep (or make) the prices of the two coins similar and then crash the whole thing all at once.

Divide and conquer. It does seem to have become a little bit more difficult with Bitcoin, but it doesn't at all appear impossible any longer.

All you need is an army of stupid miners.

@awemany
I hear you man, but I don't get you.

Stupid miners? It's not proof of IQ, it's proof of work. Today, it's a lot of work behind the different mining operations around the world. Much of the work to establish the mining operation isn't measured in kW/h. It's fiat, time, reasearch, negotiations with local regulators (whores) investors etc. And some people are actually making those ASIC's from scratch. The ASIC's doesn't exist until somebody put money, effort and focus on making those mining tools.

Next time you call miners stupid, @awemany, I might call you stupid.
[doublepost=1503105823][/doublepost]There's a TV show where they make spoiled fashion interested kids work in factories in south east asia a couple of days. Maybe @awemany should take a few shifts in a bitcoin mine.
[doublepost=1503105966,1503105366][/doublepost](I'd be happy to join.)

 

[albin]

@freetrader

I like Luke's "liar/troll" comment in there... either he literally doesn't understand the concept of people having slight differences in interpretation that lead to using semantics slightly differently, or he just might be a genius performance actor vis-a-vis Poe's Law!

 

[Zarathustra]

I think u/JustSomeBadAdvice has some valid arguments.Very interesting discussion.

 

[awemany]

@Norway:

I hear you man, but I don't get you.

Stupid miners? It's not proof of IQ, it's proof of work. Today, it's a lot of work behind the different mining operations around the world. Much of the work to establish the mining operation isn't measured in kW/h. It's fiat, time, reasearch, negotiations with local regulators (whores) investors etc. And some people are actually making those ASIC's from scratch. The ASIC's doesn't exist until somebody put money, effort and focus on making those mining tools.

Next time you call miners stupid, @awemany, I might call you stupid.

Go ahead. You are betting for Bitcoin Cash to be successful.

If BCC overtakes BTC, that means that the miners did not sense the market correctly. At least for a while.

Which is exactly my point. And no, I didn't mean to say all miners are stupid.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

If BCC overtakes BTC, that means that the miners did not sense the market correctly. At least for a while.

Who cares if they do the right thing in the end and do their PoW on the most profitable chain.

Excited about BCC but I still expect SW2X to explode in value after the hardfork and BCC to become a very small altcoin. But I don't care either way at this point, if BCC becomes Bitcoin I'm happy as well. It's been a great success in my book so far and a huge factor in removing the corrupt core team. The last part is becoming more and more obvious imho. Blockstream core is dissolving itself and the hubris of * people like Todd and the blue haired Napoleon is cringeworthy to watch.

* is this the correct preposition?

And the "satellite project" by Blockstream seems to be a really stupid marketing gag if I'm not missing something. What on earth is so spectacular about that? You can broadcast any stuff per satellite if you pay for it. Big deal! (Great science by the BS geniuses!!1!!1!)

 

[lunar]

​

Apparently this says BTC.TOP moving over to BCC chain on monday. Unconfirmed at this time, with additional rumour that Antpool coming along for the ride.

[
​

 

[adamstgbit]

2x isn't going to happen unless there is rough consensus ... BCH was the credible threat required to make core yield and allow 2x, core isn't yielding, so its time to make good on the threat... the the 2x fork support is a bluff, the hope is to gain rough consensus, that may work. but if it doesn't, plan B is BCH and NOT a segwit2x fork.

 

[adamstgbit]

but lets imagine there is another forking fork.

now your choices are segwit1MB( centrally controlled GARBAGE ), segwit2x( a strange compromise to a now non existing problem(core devs). ) or BCH's 8MB + tx mal fix...

the winner is clear IMO, BCH win's not because its the best, but because its competing against Garbage!
[doublepost=1503173075][/doublepost]we'll see...

 

[AdrianX]

@adamstgbit I never though there could be enough trolling to block the 2X, and to be honest I though those calling it a bate and switch were overlooking the fact that segwit would never activate without the 2X commitment.

The Bitcoin Cash fork to me was also trivial, it seemed to be accommodating what I though were extremists no-Segwit at any cost, and it would have no impact on the 2X agreement.

I do feel I was wrong in thinking the 2X part could not be thwarted. looks like it can. it looks like all those agreeing to it may turn out to be idiots (except for the ones who knew the 2X would not happen)

seems Plan B is the original plan A.

 

[adamstgbit]

@AdrianX

I know eh, its unbelievable really, core had agreeded to do the exact same thing over a year ago with the Hong Kong Agreement, they pulled out of it and as a result segwit was delayed, now they are presented with basically the same agreement, only this time it came signed by economic marjory almost all miners and a tone of bitcoin businesses, and they are STUPID enough to sorta let segwit lock in and then immediately start the trolling and post deleting. all this to avoid somthing that is eventually unavoidable!
It's mind blowing!
they are willing to risk everything to avoid the unavoidable. whats even more amazing is that they have enough support to pull it off!

OH WELL, now we can all watch and laugh at there pathetic attempts at keeping there users ignorant, and misinformed, while they try to profit off their user base being forced to use LN.

you almost feel bad for their supporters.... almost!

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

I know eh, its unbelievable really, core had agreeded to do the exact same thing over a year ago with the Hong Kong Agreement, they pulled out of it and as a result segwit was delayed, now they are presented with basically the same agreement, only this time it came signed by economic marjory almost all miners and a tone of bitcoin businesses, and they are STUPID enough to sorta let segwit lock in and then immediately start the trolling and post deleting. all this to avoid somthing that is eventually unavoidable!
It's mind blowing!

That's something squatting through my mind last days. Core doesn't seem to play like they want to win.

Core censors half of the community.
Core fights the biggest (known) holder.
Core fights the biggest miner.

The biggest (known) holder and some miners started to rally behind BCC. What does Core do? They start to fight the biggest payment processor.

That's not how you play if you want to win. You don't run in a situation in which your Chain (Corechain) is in a hashrate competition with a chain better suited for this (Cashchain). And if you do, you don't destabilize your chain by infighting (No2x) and start collecting more powerful enemies. That's how you play if you want to lose.

For example, I would not wonder if Stephen Pair converted some of his holdings in BCC after getting subject of Core's troll army. That's the wonderful thing of BCC - it's a way out of Core while sticking to Bitcoin.

The actions of Core and friends are so obvious stupid and self-damaging, that I wonder if we miss something ..

 

[AdrianX]

I've seen BS/Core developers describe the bitcoin network as an adversarial Network. One where you're constantly attacked and need to design for the situation where people are not cooperative.

I see bitcoin as a cooperative Network one where all players have an economic incentive to cooperate.

In my view those that don't cooperate are disadvantaged while those that do are rewarded.

Core's behavior may just be a fundamental misunderstanding of the incentive system. They think they're winning by driving adoption of the blockchain away from bitcoin while I think that's how you win.

Evolution favors those who cooperate and flow with natural selection not those who isolate and try and control the evolution process.

 

[majamalu]

I remember when people used to speculate about how the masters of fiat money would try to stop Bitcoin. Well, now we know how, and we also know how they fail.

Core collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

 

[AdrianX]

@Magnolia Head over to r/bitcoin now for a glimpse of what it looks like.

Thank to the creators of Segwit "Stockholm syndrome"

ABC = ASICboost Cash

When Segwit is activated... we'll need to switch to LN before we see improvements.

And it's delineated as the new age of crypto.

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

The actions of Core and friends are so obvious stupid and self-damaging, that I wonder if we miss something ..

I came to the conclusion that they are just a bunch of crazy loudmouths with a control fetish. Worked pretty well for them for a long time but finally people start to realize that they were duped by a bunch of fanatics. I don't really believe in any great conspiracies in regards to core/blockstream at this point. Adam Back has a good track record of running companies into the ground and not seeing the big picture and he's continuing to do so.

I guess BS has some problems with their investors now. The satellite bullshit (fuck you Adam, you marketing snake) is a desperate attempt to stay relevant with an absolute uninteresting bullshit project. Anything else they promised is less than vaporware.

P.S. @Christoph Bergmann Bitcoin.de is listed on http://nob2x.org/ , I suspect, that this isn't correct?

 

[Epilido]

I think that the real reason for the 1MB limitation is not that the network cannot handle it but that large blocks, especially if the contain signatures, would be to expensive to stream via the satellite.

Segwit blocks full of transactions minus the signatures would be the smallest amount of data and likely much cheaper to send.