Wall Observer

Would you prefer to:

  • 1. Implement SegWit now, lift the block size limit later.

    Votes: 3 6.0%
  • 2. Implement SegWit and lift the block size limit at the same time.

    Votes: 7 14.0%
  • 3. Lift the block size limit now, and put SegWit on hold (perhaps indefinitely).

    Votes: 40 80.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .

JayJuanGee

Active Member
Sep 29, 2015
115
41
It appears you're spending too much time on censored forums. The Bitcoin code is infinitely reproducible it's only the network of users that give it value.
I will give it to you that I do not claim to be any kind of expert when it comes to knowing actual truth; however, I will assure you that I am attempting to engage in my own critical thinking in order to determine what I believe to be the most likely and most plausible based on information within my purview.

Regarding censored forums, I have already commented on that a number of times in this thread and even in bitcointalk forums, and really it seems to me that it is a kind of nonsense claim to assert that bitcointalk is censored in any kind of meaningful way, and that is where I spend quite a bit of time, if that is what you are referring to. I will acknowledge that if in fact I were merely in line with the thinking of a supposedly censored forum, then I may not notice the censorship, but really, it seems to be nonsense and a way to attempt to divert from talking about substance ( a kind of ad hominem attack in this case to assert that I am lacking in critical thinking skills).

Regarding the public reproducibility of the bitcoin code, yeah sure it is reproducible, so it is not special in that regard, but it does not mean that someone is going to necessarily be able to improve upon the code in such a material way in which bitcoin could not just implement some variation of such improvement... so again, you are implying some hypothetical threat that does not in fact exist in practice.. in theory it sounds good, but let's see it play out and if it produces a better coin, then I have no problem following you to that coin.


It's the small centralized group of developers of whom the most influential are employed by Blockstream that are making change to the bitcoin protocol.
I don't really know enough facts to agree with you in this kind of assertion - though I see such assertion(s) being made on a frequent basis.. I just continue to have my doubts if there are any facts to really support it beyond the mere assertion of such.

Their paid PR team their pursuit to profile by changing the bitcoin protocol and the economic incentives that made bitcoin so attractive in the first place are threatening the unique paradigm changing value that bitcoin is currently bringing to the table.
Again, sound like all talk and a lot of conspiracy fantasy thinking to me to be suggesting that these kind of things are going on.
 
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jbreher

Active Member
Dec 31, 2015
166
526
Adrian X:
It's the small centralized group of developers of whom the most influential are employed by Blockstream that are making change to the bitcoin protocol.
JJG:
I don't really know enough facts to agree with you in this kind of assertion - though I see such assertion(s) being made on a frequent basis.. I just continue to have my doubts if there are any facts to really support it beyond the mere assertion of such.
See, that's one thing I find in your behavior that annoys me. You admit that you've not dug into the situation enough to know. But yet you are among the most obstinate of Core cheerleaders.

Yes, The SegWit Omnibus Changeset changes Bitcoin in ways far exceeding a simple bump in the maxblocksize. By at least an order of magnitude. There really is no way this could be denied. Period. Perhaps you should look into the matter yourself, before your next shouting down of someone advocating increasing the maxblocksize.
 

sgbett

Active Member
Aug 25, 2015
216
786
UK
I know his 'calculation' very well. It's a perfect description of how things might play out. However, I think the function is more about Crypto vs. Fiat in general.



If he is (in any way) right, this means we'll see x1000 within 15 month.
pfft don't listen to that crackpot!
 
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8up

Active Member
Mar 14, 2016
120
344
pfft don't listen to that crackpot!
:) If Bitcoin becomes successful (however you want to define that) - it will be one thing for sure. ---> Weird for the 'normal' observer and a hell of a ride for us Bitcoiners!
 
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JayJuanGee

Active Member
Sep 29, 2015
115
41
See, that's one thing I find in your behavior that annoys me. You admit that you've not dug into the situation enough to know. But yet you are among the most obstinate of Core cheerleaders.
You and I have had several posts back and forth on different threads, so it is possible that our annoyance level reaches a kind of mutuality because in part, I get the sense that you are mischaracterizing my position to be something other than what I believe that I am saying.

Yes, regular folks (non technical folks) can chime in on some of this discussion concerning evidence that they have seen. In late 2015, I had hardly any ideas regarding the then budding XT and Classic discussions that were being presented, and I stayed neutral and non-commital for quite a long time, but then I saw that there seemed to be a level of obstinance and lack of evidence or logic and even trickery coming from those proposals (in that they were attempts to change governance that were dressed in technical propositions). In the end, I could give a ratt's ass about Core or any of that, and I am willing to move to any kinds of new propositions, if there is evidence and/or logic to support such movement. Accordingly, you seem to be misreading my position to be cheerleading for core when in fact I remain convinced that my position has more to do with XT and classic failing to meet any kind of evidence or logic burden of presentation and persuasion , yet the XT classic themes keep coming up despite such lackings.

We do not need to go on and on and on about these matters because they seem to be circular, yet I also believe that the bitcoin community at large (at least those buying bitcions) has come around to understand that a lot of the claims of bitcoin being broken or needing a fix is really bullshit.. and that is part of the reason that the price has continued to go up and up and up from the $200s (when the claims of broken were beginning to become more and more vocalized) and even surpassing the $400s (when there were additional seemingly last ditch attempts to make such "broken" claims). In the end, there have been difficulties bringing bitcoin's price down, even to bring it back into the $400s, which are overall signs of confidence in BTC, and that is definitely not just me.


Yes, The SegWit Omnibus Changeset changes Bitcoin in ways far exceeding a simple bump in the maxblocksize. By at least an order of magnitude. There really is no way this could be denied. Period. Perhaps you should look into the matter yourself, before your next shouting down of someone advocating increasing the maxblocksize.
Yes, you can talk as emphatically as you like regarding the supposed simplicity of a blocksize limit increase and why such an increase would be simpler and easier, but in the end, implementing seg wit is a lot less controversial than you are making it out to be, and in fact, even a lot of XT/Classic proponents (including Gavin and Jeff Garzik) are not against the implementation of seg wit, which is going to be implemented, in part, because it is not controverted.... Maybe seg wit is complicated, but a lot of things in bitcoin are complicated, and if the technical folks largely agree that seg wit is a good thing to implement, then why would we be arguing in attempt to suggest that we should not do the thing that is very largely agreed to and largely not controverted?

In this regard, your going on and on and being emphatic about seg wit supposedly being controverted seems to make little sense... yeah, let's argue about something that is largely non controverted in order to make it seem controverted and then assert that it is controverted because we are arguing about it... makes little sense to me. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

jbreher

Active Member
Dec 31, 2015
166
526
I get the sense that you are mischaracterizing my position to be something other than what I believe that I am saying.
I was responding directly to your apparent ridiculing the proposition made by Adrian-X that the extensive changes proposed for the protocol are being proposed by Core. That may not be what you intended to say, but that is what came through loud and clear.

Yes, regular folks (non technical folks) can chime in on some of this discussion concerning evidence that they have seen.
I have no problem with non-techies rendering an opinion. When they repeatedly make unsupportable -- even false -- statements, is when I get irritated.

a lot of the claims of bitcoin being broken or needing a fix is really bullshit..
A car with two completely flat tires will get you down the road too. Is it broken? I guess it depends upon whether you are a 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' person.

yeah, let's argue about something that is largely non controverted in order to make it seem controverted and then assert that it is controverted because we are arguing about it... makes little sense to me.
You seem to have little understanding of the definition of 'controversy'. The fact that the community is still divided on the issue is prima facie evidence of controversy.
 
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JayJuanGee

Active Member
Sep 29, 2015
115
41
I was responding directly to your apparent ridiculing the proposition made by Adrian-X that the extensive changes proposed for the protocol are being proposed by Core. That may not be what you intended to say, but that is what came through loud and clear.
If I am not sure about what you are talking about, then it seems a bit much to say that whatever I said was coming out loud and clear, and likely whatever point was being made doesn't even matter that much... Each of us says what we believe , and then at some point we just let it stand rather than harp on it.

I have no problem with non-techies rendering an opinion. When they repeatedly make unsupportable -- even false -- statements, is when I get irritated.
Well, I guess that we are developing mutual sentiments in respect to each other, and probably we do not need to resolve them.. since I have criticized you based on similar assertions, or at least assertions that I thought that you tend to want to delve into irrelevant details that do not matter to the previous comments or conclusions.


A car with two completely flat tires will get you down the road too. Is it broken? I guess it depends upon whether you are a 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty' person.
Yes, there could be some perspective involved depending upon the reason that you are asserting that something is broken and what facts and logic you are using to reach such conclusions.... and maybe the purpose that you are proposing for the asserted broken item.

You seem to have little understanding of the definition of 'controversy'. The fact that the community is still divided on the issue is prima facie evidence of controversy.
I find no need to concede any of the points that I already on this topic, and I think that we are repeating ourselves here, and we can just agree to disagree, no?
 

above1000

New Member
May 3, 2016
16
8
so we jest made a small move to ((670)) this is a good sign as we were stuck at 650 for some time- -stable / some-one mentioned something about a certain number of blocks or hash rates needing to be eaten up for the halving to take its effect and having something to do with btc-mine-ing //
-- -- in simple terms yes the halving took place we were stable at 650 and now i believe we will see a slow steady up swing over the coarse of the next few months / yes that would be great if it happens in the next weeks / however i do believe we will see the high 700-s hoping (((--800---))!! ! on this next leg up / i believe the halving will take a gradual effect and then boost us up for its grater effect / so hopefully we slow-lee gain some speed or bounce around at 650 and above and then gain traction into the 700-s / that- is my prediction a positive-one! / shore it could all crash back down to 450 or lower that's BTC /
i am looking to exit and i do believe we could see 800 and more stability as-well- on this next run ,.. cheers .. :)
 

JayJuanGee

Active Member
Sep 29, 2015
115
41
Yep, and I will continue occasionally challenging your public pronouncements which I find to be nonsense.

Cheers!
That's certainly within your prerogative to reach your conclusions and opinions and then to decide whether such conclusions and opinions need to be put in the context of my posted conclusions and opinions. :p
[doublepost=1468376915][/doublepost]
so we jest made a small move to ((670)) this is a good sign as we were stuck at 650 for some time- -stable / some-one mentioned something about a certain number of blocks or hash rates needing to be eaten up for the halving to take its effect and having something to do with btc-mine-ing //
-- -- in simple terms yes the halving took place we were stable at 650 and now i believe we will see a slow steady up swing over the coarse of the next few months / yes that would be great if it happens in the next weeks / however i do believe we will see the high 700-s hoping (((--800---))!! ! on this next leg up / i believe the halving will take a gradual effect and then boost us up for its grater effect / so hopefully we slow-lee gain some speed or bounce around at 650 and above and then gain traction into the 700-s / that- is my prediction a positive-one! / shore it could all crash back down to 450 or lower that's BTC /
i am looking to exit and i do believe we could see 800 and more stability as-well- on this next run ,.. cheers .. :)
Wait??? You are "above1000"? After this quasi-pessimistic pronouncement (in contrast to your name), are you going to plan for a name change too?
 

above1000

New Member
May 3, 2016
16
8
na i had my own thread on the original wall observer ware i stated over and over again with out! market manipulation! =mtgox or =a serious frenzy =
china or something like it // it will most likely not reach 1000 to 1300
or it will take longer than i want to wait / the halving is not or might be enough however i don' know / i have bin trying to cash out for the past 2 years and want to get rid of the coins i hold for money / at 800 i might be out 1000 would be perfect 4 me 4 shore i am looking to get out / i am selling 4 btc currently own-lee to acquire a 80 thousand dollar recording console i am getting used below 3 thousand as i am building a recording studio / my thread on the original bit coin form is berried however searching my name on there it might come up above1000 = bitcoin go up bitcoin go down = thread title / it basic-lee sums up the hole were in and trying to climb out of / a hole made by market manipulation combined with a frenzy in china 2 years or so ago // in other news we may be crossing into 700 // last i looked 681 //
so its looking like a slow steady slow up ward momentum jest to reach 800 then crash back to 650 = pre halving// however the halving might hold things together and we could pull out of the slump and stay in the 700 800 range maybe pull up to 1000 / after the recording console i will weight it out on vacation in the 3rd world or sell out around 800 ish because i cant take another roller-coaster ride back down // it could go up some more back down then up again a bit higher // i am 4 shore giving this a few months to see if the halving takes some good effect and we can see 800 within about 2 or 3 months // 4 shore it will go above 1000 // its jest how long does anyone want to weight that could be over a year or two and that is not worth it 4 me to weight that long if we can get up to 800/ there is a small chance i will weight it out// it might own-lee take 3 months to reach above1000 /////---- --- ------ - - cheers . . . . ,, .. ------
 
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JayJuanGee

Active Member
Sep 29, 2015
115
41
na i had my own thread on the original wall observer ware i stated over and over again with out! market manipulation! =mtgox or =a serious frenzy =
china or something like it // it will most likely not reach 1000 to 1300
or it will take longer than i want to wait / the halving is not or might be enough however i don' know / i have bin trying to cash out for the past 2 years and want to get rid of the coins i hold for money / at 800 i might be out 1000 would be perfect 4 me 4 shore i am looking to get out / i am selling 4 btc currently own-lee to acquire a 80 thousand dollar recording console i am getting used below 3 thousand as i am building a recording studio / my thread on the original bit coin form is berried however searching my name on there it might come up above1000 = bitcoin go up bitcoin go down = thread title / it basic-lee sums up the hole were in and trying to climb out of / a hole made by market manipulation combined with a frenzy in china 2 years or so ago // in other news we may be crossing into 700 // last i looked 681 //
so its looking like a slow steady slow up ward momentum jest to reach 800 then crash back to 650 = pre halving// however the halving might hold things together and we could pull out of the slump and stay in the 700 800 range maybe pull up to 1000 / after the recording console i will weight it out on vacation in the 3rd world or sell out around 800 ish because i cant take another roller-coaster ride back down // it could go up some more back down then up again a bit higher // i am 4 shore giving this a few months to see if the halving takes some good effect and we can see 800 within about 2 or 3 months // 4 shore it will go above 1000 // its jest how long does anyone want to weight that could be over a year or two and that is not worth it 4 me to weight that long if we can get up to 800/ there is a small chance i will weight it out// it might own-lee take 3 months to reach above1000 /////---- --- ------ - - cheers . . . . ,, .. ------

Fair enough.

Each of us is entitled to his perspective and plan in respect to our bitcoin investment.

To me, it sounds as if you may have over invested in BTC over $800 (which BTC prices were only above $800 for a total of about 10 weeks (and not whole weeks) during late 2013 and early 2014. Also, sure, sometimes there could be mistakes in regards to trading BTC as well or otherwise inadequate plans to employ mechanisms to lower average costs per BTC.

You need to do what you believe is correct, and to me personally, getting out above $800 seems a bad idea, even though it could be a good idea for you. I think that there is a decent chance that once BTC prices pass $850, the could be heading to the $3k to $5k price territories, but of course, everyone needs to consider what works for himself, and certainly there are no guarantees of anything, including that there will be any additional upwards price movements from our current $670s prices.
 

Tomothy

Active Member
Mar 14, 2016
130
317
Core seemed to form in 2013/14 after btc drak, ptodd, lukejr, nullc, met in irc bitcoin chatrooms and all became best buds, this was after some of them made and lost money with various pump and dump schemes and bitcoin prices crashed from our all time high. You know have a group of coders that hang out in their own secret chatroom, make plans and determine implementation, and then publicly support one another. More of a cabal than anything else, since most are paid by blockstream this creates a strong suspicion of corruption. Essentially, bitcoin core developed because of money, imho the falling price. Story time.


So, there was group of computer coders, full of lofty ideals and morals who decided to join and undertake a great quest to help write and save software called Bitcoin. At it's early inception, after it's King took off his crown, fled to the countryside, he left his mandate under the care and patronage of one person. Under that person's LEADERSHIP the technology underlying bitcoin along with the overall landscape grew and flourished. Based on proposals and the direction of the technology and what would happen in the near term (i.e., not distant future) businesses decided to enter the bitcoin workspace. They joined expecting the kingdom to flourish, for more peasants to join, for more homes to be built, and critically, for trade to flourish.

There came a point during this tale, when more vocal members of the computer coders of this merry bunch of visionaries who wrote and cared for the aging Bitcoin began to have disagreements. This seemed to primarily start after the second person to hold the reigns of Bitcoin abdicated the throne but who would stay on as an advisor. Although he passed on the reigns, his successors for they were more a cabal than any one individual, lacked the leadership qualities to share their vision with the rest of the kingdom. This may have been due to ideological ideas about purity or the heavy bag of coins slid across the tavern table, but ultimately the view and ideal of what bitcoin is, what purpose it serves, and how to protect that purpose, began to change and those in charge of this mission became insular.

Although power was shared equally and all were welcome to sit at their round table, some began to grow weary of contrary opinions, some began to question outside opinions, and worse, some began to question the leadership of the council and to question whether the world was flat and really revolved around the sun. The door to the kingdom was said to be open and anyone could attend, but then they changed meeting rooms, to hide and plot in the dark recesses of the night. When others tried to enter they were greeted with honeyed words while the council members sharpened their daggers.

And then the schism; like any good dictatorship, the war was waged in earnest on all fronts, with flat out attacks of rival kingdoms, political intrigue, and the purchasing of silence. Power was consolidated, bigger doors were installed, and the locks were changed. This was all for the good of the purity of bitcoin; it needed to be protected from the evil usurpers who would corrupt it's innocence. Once everyone else was locked out of the castle, the knight's of the core table could do what they want and continued to act with impunity. Meanwhile, outside the confine and comfort of the castle, the peasants grew hungry, the town over crowded a line developed outside the gate. The guards began to charge an entrance fee, merchants concerned over rising expenses laid off employees and tightened their belts. All will be well the council cried and dissent was met with the cruel cudgel of being branded a secessionist. Meanwhile, the peasants are getting hungrier, the merchants slowly their supply of goods, and the guards have become concerned about the long line of peasants threatening to leave for a different town.

Come see this magic trick, filled with lightning and thunder decried the council. But the peasants decided to stay home; too hungry to celebrate and enjoy the mirth promised. Due to declining coffers, the council cut the wages of the guards in half and as such, the Guards demanded a meeting with the council to talk about the line outside the gate. To many had heard of the fabled towns across the way. Some towns with no line to get in; other towns with no merchant guilds and free trade, and some kingdoms even nearly as big as this one just ruled by a king not a council and almost as prosperous. The guards were getting scared of a revolt, after all there were more peasants than guards outside the gates waiting to get in. Instead the council said, not at this meeting, this is for feasting and ordered the nay-sayers banned and more refreshments brought by. Maybe at the next meeting behind close doors will the guards get to address the ever growing line. Maybe next month.
 

above1000

New Member
May 3, 2016
16
8
well i got 684 per btc coin/ a little over 2,700 for 4 coins/ was above market price at that moment/ and for 2,800 i got a 80-thousand-dollar-recording- console/ analog boards are going down in price as every one wants digital now/ score for me / so will this thing pull out of the nose dive
will we see 800 per btc coin in the next 3 months ? will the halving take effect after a wile and send us in a upward momentum? what ever works and if some entities manipulate the market upward that's okay as well.. cheers . ..