Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Norway]

this will be much less of a problem (because the people we are talking about here are the miners and node operators).

I beg to differ. Future miners and node operators are not necessary monitoring the network and adjusting their settings accordingly. Hopefully, future mining will be more decentralized when ASIC development breaks hard and continue like Moore's law. With a longer shelf life on ASICs, the manufacturers can sell them instead of using them for themselves. However, I think it's safe to assume that the hash power majority of pool operators will configure their settings and uppgrade when needed. But non-mining nodes could become a problem if they are many and left on their own.

a) set their limits to high-enough "fire and forget" values (probably 32MB), and wait until BU solves the next big scaling hurdle (whether it be sharding, subchains, something like NG, etc.)

I certainly do not think 32MB is a fire and forget limit. AFAIK, several hundred MB blocks are possible today with BU. And transaction rate could suddenly grow exponential at some point.

Anyway, it's good to take a close look at the default values and think about future consequences. Most people only upgrade their software because they are forced to do it.

 

[freetrader]

I certainly do not think 32MB is a fire and forget limit.

Yes, I meant to imply "for now". Personally I think it could last us a few years, by which time much, much more will be possible and the defaults can be raised again to a much higher level.

Anyway, it's good to take a close look at the default values and think about future consequences.

Agreed!

Most people only upgrade their software because they are forced to do it.

Sure. But if that software runs your "bank at home" or is vital to your business, I think you'll pay some attention or contract that maintenance to reputable service providers who will. Those who don't will fail in a competitive world.

AFAIK, several hundred MB blocks are possible today with BU. And transaction rate could suddenly grow exponential at some point.

I know tests with very large blocks are underway, and I know it's not far out of reach technologically at all (ref. Thomas Zander's article on his scaling measurements).

I also agree that the transaction rate could very well explode, and we should "design for success", like Gavin said, I think.

 

[cliff]

-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1
$611.07| $1285.65 | $1290
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX) | BTCswap(Polo)
0.0428% | 0.0364%
-------------------------------------
HashRate: 1.80 EH/s
MarketCap: $9,711,501,208
BTC Dominance: 79.5%
Gemini Daily Auction (prev day) 1,663 BTC/$613.00
-------------------------------------
GBTC | SPDR Gold Trust ETF
$90.25 | $122.73
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas| Copper | Crude (WTI)
1.60% | $218.7/lb | $48.99/barrel
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

• Lightning network: will it save Bitcoin? Or break it? (Wall Street Technologist)
  • RustyRussell’s comment/response
• Bill Gross Says Bitcoin, Blockchain May Counter Central Banks (Bloomberg)
• Scaling Bitcoin - Milan (pastebin version)
• Bitcoin Unlimited to Provide "Several Hundred Thousand Dollars" for Bitcoin Projects (Cryptocoins News)
• Paul's drivechain patch (added lines): 1916 vs RSK's patch: 598 lines (excluding testing code). RSK's is ++simpler and more powerful, IMHO (Sergio Demian Lerner, Tweet)
  • RSK BIP Proposal - Title: Drivechain using OP_COUNT_ACKS
  • Pstorc comment
  • Do the Peter Todd shakedown - starting here
    • Also here (zcash shakedown)
      

-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

• Existential Threat to World Order Confronts Elite at IMF Meeting (Bloomberg)
  • I.M.F. Warns of Anti-Trade Sentiment Amid Weak Global Economy (NYT)
• Indian central bank's new regime cuts rates (Reuters)
• Global Shares Rise as Pound Slumps on EU-Exit Date (WSJ)
• Yoshinori Ohsumi of Japan Wins Nobel Prize for Study of ‘Self-Eating’ Cells (NYT)
• Parking Lots Are an Incredible Waste of Space. Here's How to End Them (Motherboard)
  

 

[Justus Ranvier]

Node operation is going to take the same path as mining in that it will gradually become an industrial operation.

Just because a large number of nodes aren't actively maintained now, while the network is still at the proof of concept/toy stage doesn't mean it stays that way forever.

 

[albin]

Those Peter Todd "shakedown" links are fascinating. Regardless of one's opinion of the Blockstream defensive patent scheme, Toddler apparently feels it's appropriate to blackmail people into adopting what he believes their organization should do, in exchange for ceasing to block their BIPs.

This is a step deeper down the corruption hole from the just the garden variety pay-for-play we've seen in core dev ever since Gavin stepped down.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to suspect that this is the real reason for the kerfuffle:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-October/013192.html

 

[cliff]

Crazy:
EDIT - Here's a tweet in response to this news that I thought was interesting:

 

[freetrader]

Anyone care to guess the odds of Blockstream / Core using the Milan scaling conf to pull another SegWit rabbit out of the hat?

I'm too uninformed about SegWit progress to hazard a guess.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0141.mediawiki#Deployment

 

[solex]

BU members are now welcome to select the new Secretary. We are fortunate to have such quality candidates putting themselves forward:

Membership vote for Secretary of Bitcoin Unlimited
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/voting-is-open-for-secretary.1505/

concurrent are Membership and Operational BUIPs...
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/voting-is-also-open-for-buips-30-31.1506/

 

[lunar]

possible smoking gun?

https://forum.bitcoin.com/post32869.html#p32869

What is the connection between Theymos and Blockstream?




OP https://forum.bitcoin.com/post32869.html#p32164

 

[Tomothy]

Cliff, your summation posts are amazing. Just wanted to say thanks. It gets tougher and tougher each week to wade through this mud.

 

[cliff]

Thanks, Tomothy. I enjoy putting them together. I plan on getting more regular again (2x/day), I've just been swamped with IRL work lately.

 

[albin]

@lunar

I hope that diagram becomes a work in progress over time much like one of those cliche crime show whiteboard / corkboard diagrams. There are a couple things that popped out at me right off the bat:

- Bitfinex is a Blockstream investor (per Phil Potter's INSANE INSANE INSANE comments about influence over Core dev somehow resulting in their stolen coins getting special privilege exemption from privacy improvements at the PROTOCOL LEVEL [?!?!?!] it on Whaleclub teamspeak)

- I have some serious reservations about the idea that DCG and Blockchain Capital are neutral and not on the small block side, and it might be fair to call a16z large block instead of neutral, but clearly there is alot of inside baseball going on here at the VC level that the public-at-large is not privy to

 

[cliff]

-------------------------------------
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1
$612.44| $1255.38 | $1254.3
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX) | BTCswap(Polo)
0.0443% | 0.0292%
-------------------------------------
HashRate: 1.83 EH/s
MarketCap: $9,763,519,772
BTC Dominance: 79.7%
Exchange Volume (BTC): $62.85m
Exchange Volume (ALT): $47.90m
Exchange Volume BTC Dominance: 56.7%
Gemini Daily Auction: 1726.40 BTC @ $611.10 ($1,055,003.04)
-------------------------------------
GBTC (MrktCap) | SPDR Gold Trust ETF
$87.8 ($122.48M) | $119.65
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas| Copper | Crude (WTI)
1.69% | $215/lb | $50.31/barrel
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

• Recent Thoughts from our Central Banking Friends:
  • The Bank of England Abandons Cryptocurrencies — For Now (Mises Institute - Blog)
  • Central Bank of Kenya not a fan of Bitcoin (IBS Intelligence)
  • Fintech won't threaten central banks, for now - BOJ official (Reuters)
  • See also this weirdo: Is Bitcoin Destined to be the World’s Reserve Currency? (Max Keiser)
• “Bitcoin.com mining pool now has ~1% of the global hash rate, has mined 10 blocks, and pays 6% more than other mining pools, all while still in private beta!” (Ver) Discuss.
• [Lightning-dev] Blockstream Successfully Tests End-to-End Lightning Micropayment Transaction (C.Decker)

-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

• Gold slips on higher U.S. rate rise prospects (Reuters)
• Jobless Claims Near Four-Decade Low Ahead of U.S. Payrolls Data (Bloomberg)
• Wal-Mart's next move against Amazon: More warehouses, faster shipping (CNBC)
• Airline Price War in Europe Is Proving Cynics Right: Flights are cheap—as is talk of a more consolidated and disciplined European airline industry (WSJ)
• Short Sellers Target Anhui Conch Amid China Bubble Warnings (Bloomberg)
• Oil holds near 2016 highs after U.S. inventory drop (Reuters)
  • See also Alaska Oil Reserves May Have Grown 80% on Giant Discovery (Bloomberg)
• Brexit Likely to Alter EU’s Sanctions Policy (WSJ)
• ECB leaders think stimulus needs time to work, open to more (USNWR)
• The permanent crisis in banking (Politico)
• Task Forces Begin Review of Faster Payments Solution Proposals (U.S. Federal Reserve - News)
• Super Size - The Dizzying Grandeur of 21st-Century Agriculture (NYT Magazine)
• Spy Tech 'Hacks WhatsApp Encrypted Chat From A Backpack (Forbes)
• FBI arrests "Shadow Brokers" leak suspect charged with theft of NSA cyberweapons (boingboing)
  • DOJ Press Release: Maryland Man Charged With Removal of Classified Materials and Theft of Government Property
  • Criminal Complaint (PDF)
• Shopify now lets stores sell directly in Facebook Messenger (TechCrunch)
• Smartphones are distracting us to death—but we can fight back (MarketWatch)

 

[xhiggy]

Theoretically would there still be classes of problems where classical algorithms have an edge?

Modern encryption is design to thwart classical computers, so it's likely that we have thought of most of the easy ways to break classical encryption. With quantum encryption/decryption there are likely many paradigms of security we haven't even begun to think about.

Who knows? We could get so into quantum cryptography we accidentally forget classical resistance along the way!

 

[Mengerian]

Stability on the rise again

source: http://bitcoinstability.github.io/bitcoinstability/#/stability

 

[Richy_T]

from reddit

"Imagine a world where Austin was always the voice of reason in the company, and just gave up. And now they go 200% more insane, remove transactions from bitcoin altogether."

Great news everybody! Tonal is back on the table.
[doublepost=1475817369][/doublepost]There is a good point is suggesting a dynamic limit but I don't think BIP101 is the way to go. If nothing else, it is associated with a failed (though noble) attempt .

I would suggest more a calculated limit based on historic block data such that blocks could grow organically without triggering any limit and it only affecting perhaps a large burst of spam/DDOS attack. Something like 8x the average of the last 100 blocks or something.

 

[solex]

@Richy_T
Yes, and to be clear, this is only for BU node owners who are not bothering to override their defaults.

 

[Richy_T]

I don't like the phrase "useful idiots". Many people in such groups are not idiots (and I don't mean those exploiting the phenomenon) and using that phrase allows them to operate in a "that can't be me" mode and avoid examining their role and assumptions.

All of us are susceptible to being mislead to various degrees and it takes a lot of effort and self examination (and frequently a third party who will call you out) to be able to discern when it's happening.
[doublepost=1475817795][/doublepost]Solex, absolutely. I just think it allows comparisons to be drawn that are perhaps not advantageous (even if dishonest): "Bitcoin Unlimited adopts failed block expansion scheme"

 

[solex]

Yep. Probably to much historical baggage with BIP101 to make use of it anymore. Would need to be different as you suggest, based on recent historical blocks. Hmm, the BitPay adaptive is an option...

 

[freetrader]

Hmm, the BitPay adaptive is an option...

Is someone mulling a BUIP?