Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Inca

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 28, 2015
517
1,679
>What exactly do you mean by quantum resistant?

I mean that hash-based signatures which rely upon one way cryptographically secure hash algorithms with sufficient bits remain secure against quantum attack, even in the event of a quantum computing singularity.

In contrast using Shor's or Grover's algorithm modern public key cryptography schemes (RSA, ECC) are not quantum safe.

Purely theoretical of course. And remember the people funding this stuff won't be making it public when they do succeed. :)
 

xhiggy

Active Member
Mar 29, 2016
124
277
>What exactly do you mean by quantum resistant?

I mean that hash-based signatures which rely upon one way cryptographically secure hash algorithms with sufficient bits remain secure against quantum attack, even in the event of a quantum computing singularity.

In contrast using Shor's or Grover's algorithm modern public key cryptography schemes (RSA, ECC) are not quantum safe.

Purely theoretical of course. And remember the people funding this stuff won't be making it public when they do succeed. :)
Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.

While scalable quantum computing is still in the realms of science fiction, it's about as far along as room temperature superconductivity, in that there are still fundamental physics problems to be solved. What I bet the NSA is doing, is not pushing the actual construction of quantum computers forward, as this is well outside of their sphere of competence, but are actually looking for alternative algorithms that can crack encryption schemes. Being resistant to Shor will mean little, when scalable quantum computing actually happens. An event that there is no evidence will ever happen (no evidence against either).
 

albin

Active Member
Nov 8, 2015
931
4,008
Theoretically would there still be classes of problems where classical algorithms have an edge?
 

cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
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Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP!
-------------------------------------
BTC | XAU (spot) | COMEX CG1
$612.36| $1314.44 | $1317.5
-------------------------------------
BTCswap(BFX) | BTCswap(Polo)
0.0439% | 0.0373%
-------------------------------------
HashRate: 1.79 EH/s
MarketCap: $9,705,122,766
BTC Dominance: 79.6%
-------------------------------------
GBTC | SPDR Gold Trust ETF
$91.25 | $125.4
-------------------------------------
10YR Treas| Copper | Crude (WTI)
1.56% | $218.5/lb | $48.41/barrel
-------------------------------------
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Changed BTC price coverage from Tradeblock index to the Kaiko Index on Bitcoin.com (Bitcoin.com has a lot of cool charts and other data available).
 

satoshis_sockpuppet

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
776
3,312
So there actually was happening something at Blockstream that fueled the latest outbursts by Greg and partly Adam. (Interesting how much time they have for reddit posts while their company replaces their CEO..)

Wonder why Hill left. If Blockstreams "vision" was anyway viable and realistic it would be pretty stupid to completely leave now. Maybe he realized that it isn't.

Good news I guess? Rats leaving the sinking ship? One can hope.

On a sidenote: I read a great Stalin biography by Simon Montefiore a few years ago (highly recommended), the impression by core often commemorates the ways of the communist party in his first years.
 

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
"Make the default mirror BIP101 and I'll support BU. People can still change it, absolutely, but the default values shouldn't be fixed. They should scale automatically and not require further thought."

Would that be a good idea?

 

solex

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 22, 2015
1,558
4,693
@Zarathustra
p2pecash does not fully understand emergent consensus on the block limit, however making the BU default EB value track BIP101's original rate is a very good suggestion, (unless manually overridden*). My assumption has been that subsequent releases of the BU client would up the default values so the 16MB would not in fact ossify as he thinks.

(edit) * in a network where the prevailing block size limit is emergent the default EB value should be determined by individual user action, however, making it automatically ramp changes the schelling point from a fixed to a moving value which is no bad thing.
[doublepost=1475541126]

[/doublepost] More ouch...

 
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Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
Ouch! running against this wall is bound to make the head hurt.

I think p2pecash has a valid point that the default settings in BU should be considered carefully. I'm not sure BIP 101 is the right way to go, but we should not under estimate the power of laziness after the software is installed.

My assumption has been that subsequent releases of the BU client would up the default values so the 16MB would not in fact ossify as he thinks.
This might be the solution, but then I think the users should be forced to make a decision when new versions are released. Som kind of auto-install functionality that prompts the user or at least warnings in flashing red telling people that their version is old. People are also lazy when it comes to upgrading. ("My node will not break the system. I'll upgrade sometimes later.")
 
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freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
@Norway, I do accept his arguments that people are lazy, but I think we'll find that as Bitcoin grows and becomes more valuable, this will be much less of a problem (because the people we are talking about here are the miners and node operators).

The solution to this as I see it, is a little benchmark feature for full node operators that bases off of real CPU benchmarking data, and that let's the users configure their block size acceptance settings to within a safe limit of what is actually achievable by their hardware. Combine that with the signaling information about the distribution of EBS/AD, and operators can

a) set their limits to high-enough "fire and forget" values (probably 32MB), and wait until BU solves the next big scaling hurdle (whether it be sharding, subchains, something like NG, etc.)

b) know with good accuracy when their node hardware stats are starting to approach the consensus "minimum" required to keep up with the blockchain

For those who are more paranoid and wish to track the block size increase incrementally (or just need to keep a lot of CPU/memory/disk space headroom on their machines for some reason), they can do so safely too.

There should be more feedback from the node software (client) to the user, informing them of where their node lies on the performance & "how long are my resources going to last" spectrum.
These are mostly questions that can be answered with a bit of math and statistics.

Finally, I believe it will be a liberating experience for node operators and miners to apply their own decision inputs on the blocksize settings and watch how the overall system adjusts. Especially if approached cautiously and conservatively. Let miners raise the block size from 1MB to 1.3MB or whatever is required to improve the service for users. They'll finally have the ability to do this without needing to exchange favors with developers.

I am not opposed to a growth like BIP101, it would be wonderful if it happens. But right now I'd be wary of building that into the software as an automatic mechanism, because it will be used to discredit BU politically, like XT was (on the basis "you don't have enough information about the future" - a valid criticism of this concept imo).

Nothing wrong with adjusting BU defaults in coming releases, preferably using some sort of representative surveys / polls of node operators together with a membership vote.
Default changes usually have to be justified very carefully, and accompanied by more extensive than usual validation activities. Implementing an automatic increase can lead to a false sense of security where one is lulled into thinking "someone must have considered this and determined it to be alright", and consequently skipping a more extensive system revalidation.

---

I made a similar post (maybe a little more circumspect) on Reddit in response to the "Make the default mirror BIP101 and I'll support BU" thread that someone raised :)

 
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