Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Nash talk alot about constructing a CPI like commodity index towards establishing a non political money acknowledging that it does have to be constructed by humans, which clearly is a problem.

but my point is that the reason Nash uses commodities for the construction of the index is b/c they are widely used, valued, and needed by everyone everywhere. which contributes to their liquidity and price stability. @NashGuy, how is it possible that Bitcoin hobbled at 1MB and serving select "settlement" entities and a niche population like we have now could ever have those properties to allow it to be an index of value?

 

[NashGuy]

i'm going thru the Jstor version of Nash's paper again. here's an interesting part:

thus, if we can deem SC's or LN as "bad money", it's quite possible it's b/c the blocksize debate is indeed "political" and not "technical".

Of course it is. Its both. But you can't dub SC or LN as "bad money" in reference to Nash's works, because you would be misrepresenting his argument and his literature that does in fact exist.

…this parallel makes it seem not implausible that a process of political evolution might lead to the expectation on the part of citizens in the “great democracies” that they should be better situated to be able to understand whatever will bet he monetary policies which, indeed, are typically of great importance to citizens who may have alternative options for where to place their “savings”.~John Forbes Nash, Ideal Money

I think of the possibility that a good sort of international currency might EVOLVE before the time when an official establishment might occur.

…my personal view is that a practical global money might most favorably evolve through the development first of a few regional currencies of truly good quality. And then the “integration” or “coordination” of those into a global currency would become just a technical problem.

To be quite respectable, in a Gresham-advised sense, money needs only to be AS GOOD as other material commod-ities that might be hoarded.

Now the possible area for evolution is that if, say, an inflation rate of between 1% and 3% is now considered desirable and appropriate in Sweden, then, if it is really controllable, why shouldn’t a rate between 1/2 % and 3/2 % be even more desirable?

(Here I am thinking of a politically neutral form of a technological utility rather than of a money which might, for example, be used to exert pressures in a conflict situation comparable to “the cold war”.)

[doublepost=1469060343][/doublepost]

Nash talk alot about constructing a CPI like commodity index towards establishing a non political money acknowledging that it does have to be constructed by humans, which clearly is a problem.

Over and over I show you haven't read the literature you are commenting on:

It seems possible and not unlikely, however, that if two states evolve towards having currencies of more stable value as measured locally by national CPI indices that then also these distinct currencies would tend to evolve towards more stable comparative relations of value.

Then the limiting or “asymptotic” result of such an evolutionary trend would be in effect “ideal money” but this as a result achieved without the adoption of anything like an ICPI index as a basis for the standard of value. Nash, Ideal Money

Ideal Money reveals players hands.

 

[cypherdoc]

when you quote something please provide the link too

 

[NashGuy]

@NashGuy talks about Bitcoin not having stable values. why of course it doesn't. it was never expected to be during this bootstrapping period of asymptotic issuance. i have always stated here in this thread that volatility should be expected all the way out to 2140 when the last coin fraction is issued. that's b/c of the relative inflation during issuance which will exponentially decrease. until that time, speculators will gyrate the price. but this kind of bootstrapping was required by design b/c Satoshi wanted to create speculation around Bitcoin in order to drive demand, which is how it bootstraps. that's b/c Bitcoin doesn't have the luster and tangibility of gold with which it has to compete.

…its was the observation of a new “line”…for “central banking” functions relating to national currencies that gave us the idea for the study of “asymptotically ideal” money.

The idea seems paradoxical, but by speaking of “inflation targeting” these responsible official are effectively CONFESSING…that it is indeed after all possible to control inflation by controlling the supply of money (as if by limiting the amount of individual “prints” that could be made of a work of art being produced as “prints).

…although that scheme for arranging for a system of money with ideal qualities would work well…it would be politically difficult to arrive at the implementation of such a system.

Now the possible area for evolution is that if, say, an inflation rate of between 1% and 3% is now considered desirable and appropriate in Sweden, then, if it is really controllable, why shouldn’t a rate between 1/2 % and 3/2 % be even more desirable?

[doublepost=1469060675][/doublepost]All quotes are from Ideal Money, not linking every post you disingenuous troll.

 

[cypherdoc]

no thoughts of your own?

 

[NashGuy]

Are you claiming that I have posted and presented no thoughts of my own? I have 100's of articles I have written on the subject and linked to here. 100's of posts and threads, maybe thousands.

I AM claiming that you have no idea what you are talking about and you haven't read the literature you early said you have.

 

[cypherdoc]

during this bootstrap of Bitcoin, it seems wise that we follow the vision of Satoshi and remove the limit so that tx fees can replace rewards. what we've seen in the several years of stalling is not growth of the community but instead division. if we want Bitcoin to realize it's potential, we have to make it inclusive for everyone on the planet to increase liquidity and security.
[doublepost=1469060997][/doublepost]

Are you claiming that I have posted and presented no thoughts of my own? I have 100's of articles I have written on the subject and linked to here. 100's of posts and threads, maybe thousands.

I AM claiming that you have no idea what you are talking about and you haven't read the literature you early said you have.

i think you are a bullshitter and can't articulate your thoughts under the scrutiny of this thread or anywhere else. if you could, you'd address everyone's comments and concerns.

 

[jonny1000]

The biggest obstacle to overcome is censorship. If you're serious, censorship should not be tolerated, you should be focusing efforts on allowing communication to facilitate consensus firstly to dispelled the FUD and secondary to allow a consensus to form.

In the past you've said you're doing nothing to help facilitate this consensus, you've just said it's not you doing the censoring and you've give lip service to the idea that you don't support it.

If you want consensus you have to make sure everyone is able to participate.

I am speaking here...

 

[cypherdoc]

@NashGuy and you certainly don't understand Bitcoin, which is what we're really talking about here.

 

[jonny1000]

You do have a nasty habit of not addressing the crux of the matter / point at hand, I'll para-quote for you:

To repeat again, I am not predicting anything about 2140

 

[NashGuy]

i think you are a bullshitter and can't articulate your thoughts under the scrutiny of this thread or anywhere else. if you could, you'd address everyone's comments and concerns.

You are the one that gave bullshit. You lied and said you were familiar with Nash's works. And now you have gone on post after post to show that you are commenting on something you haven't even read. You are refuting works you refuse to even read. And I AM addressing ALL the sincere players comments, and even yours which is disingenuous and insincere.

@NashGuy and you certainly don't understand Bitcoin, which is what we're really talking about here.

This is a sentiment that I have refuted time and time again. I am clearly one of the few that does, and my arguments are based on scientifically accepted principles. Not sentiments. My arguments have quotes and citations. And I HAVE read the literature that I am espousing.

And everyone reading this knows the truth of this.

Will you attack my arguments or only my character?

 

[cypherdoc]

>You lied and said you were familiar with Nash's works.- @NashGuy

you're lying by inferring that i'm not. and throwing about wild allegations that make you laughable. i am quoting and talking about his paper but you won't address any of my pts.

 

[NashGuy]

Other people get to judge you. Not urself

 

[cypherdoc]

Nash talk alot about constructing a CPI like commodity index towards establishing a non political money acknowledging that it does have to be constructed by humans, which clearly is a problem.

but my point is that the reason Nash uses commodities for the construction of the index is b/c they are widely used and needed by everyone everywhere. which contributes to their liquidity and price stability. @NashGuy, how is it possible that Bitcoin hobbled at 1MB and serving select "settlement" entities and a niche population like we have now ever have those properties to allow it to be an index of value?

hey @NashGuy

why don't you try addressing this point? instead of just linking and posturing, yelling, screaming foul play? that's if you can.

 

[NashGuy]

Nash is the benevolent man with the anti central government/bank agenda, he was afraid to speak clearly about his thesis. I have quoted proof of this. What does it mean to remain disenginious in front of his works?

What does it mean to misrepresent him? What does it mean to refute him without reading his works? What does it mean to suppress his works on /r/btc?

There is only ONE moderator on the whole internet that protects my message. The only reason we all know of Nash's Ideal Money is because of one moderator.

What does it mean to attack the only person carrying Nash's message that ultimately an international e-currency will take the power from the central banks?

[doublepost=1469062254][/doublepost]

hey @NashGuy


<snipped>

why don't you try addressing this point? instead of just linking and posturing, yelling, screaming foul play? that's if you can.

CYPHERDOCS IGNORANT QUESTION:
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-732#post-25509
"Nash talk alot about constructing a CPI like commodity index towards establishing a non political money acknowledging that it does have to be constructed by humans, which clearly is a problem."

"but my point is that the reason Nash uses commodities for the construction of the index"

PROOF CYPHERDOCS IS MISREPRESENTING NASH:
"It seems possible and not unlikely, however, that if two states evolve towards having currencies of more stable value as measured locally by national CPI indices that then also these distinct currencies would tend to evolve towards more stable comparative relations of value.

Then the limiting or “asymptotic” result of such an evolutionary trend would be in effect “ideal money” but this as a result achieved without the adoption of anything like an ICPI index as a basis for the standard of value. Nash, Ideal Money"

Proof I already addressed it, and CYPHER IS MISREPRESENTING ME (https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-732#post-25497). He didn't propose what you are saying. Further giving evidence to the FACT that you are unfamiliar with the works you are making references to.
[doublepost=1469062564][/doublepost]"posturing, yelling, screaming foul play?" How does one yell AND scream on a forum?

 

[cypherdoc]

you lose b/c individual national currencies in this narrative are still based on a widely accepted commodity comprising the national CPI index and worldwide commodities in general:

PROOF CYPHERDOCS IS MISREPRESENTING NASH:
"It seems possible and not unlikely, however, that if two states evolve towards having currencies of more stable value as measured locally by national CPI indices that then also these distinct currencies would tend to evolve towards more stable comparative relations of value.

Then the limiting or “asymptotic” result of such an evolutionary trend would be in effect “ideal money” but this as a result achieved without the adoption of anything like an ICPI index as a basis for the standard of value. Nash, Ideal Money"

 

[NashGuy]

You left the part out where you are ignorant on his works. The part that shows you are not familiar with Nash's thesis:

cypherdocs: "Nash talk alot about constructing a CPI like commodity index towards establishing a non political money acknowledging that it does have to be constructed by humans, which clearly is a problem."

Are you claiming you have read the works Ideal Money? Are you claiming you know and understand Nash's thesis.

 

[cypherdoc]

where are you getting this idea that i don't like Nash or his theories on ideal Money?
[doublepost=1469063525][/doublepost]

Are you claiming you have read the works Ideal Money? Are you claiming you know and understand Nash's thesis.

yes, have you? b/c you don't sound like it, simply copy pasting quotes w/o any real insight. i've read at least 2 versions of this Ideal Money paper which i believe is representative of his thoughts on the matter even if there are a few other versions floating around out there. those don't matter i'm sure otherwise you'd have been willing to post the version that is non-conformant with the generally accessible ones that i've read.
[doublepost=1469063740][/doublepost]

you lose b/c individual national currencies in this narrative are still based on a widely accepted commodity comprising the national CPI index and worldwide commodities in general:

PROOF CYPHERDOCS IS MISREPRESENTING NASH:
"It seems possible and not unlikely, however, that if two states evolve towards having currencies of more stable value as measured locally by national CPI indices that then also these distinct currencies would tend to evolve towards more stable comparative relations of value.

Then the limiting or “asymptotic” result of such an evolutionary trend would be in effect “ideal money” but this as a result achieved without the adoption of anything like an ICPI index as a basis for the standard of value. Nash, Ideal Money"

you lose here b/c of your ignorance of why commodities were chosen by Nash. hint: they are widely used, needed, accepted, and valued by everyone, everywhere. unlike Bitcoin hobbled by 1MB.
[doublepost=1469063958,1469063218][/doublepost]let me predict what you're going to say next; nothing of substance, probably more copy/pastes, and more ad homs. amirite?

 

[freetrader]

It's times like these when I have to point out that

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330553.msg13883363#msg13883363

 

[cypherdoc]

don't ruin our suspense. i'm waiting for an actual logical argument to my last question to slide out of @NashGuy's mealy mouth.