Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Erdogan

Active Member
Aug 30, 2015
476
856
The situation is grotesque. The so called 'community' - which in fact is a society of millions of individuals - hopes for one (1!) barely grown up guy who is sitting behind the great firewall in a totalitarian territory where no one can do business without collaboration with corrupt representatives of that totalitarian government.

Where is the invisible hand? A libertarian market project turned in record time into a totalitarian one. "Free market" is an oximoron. Market is about domination, corruption, power and force - more or less, but never free.
That was not a threat, it was concern, but misplaced. We don't rely on one person, we rely on the market. It is free to the degree no one interferes with violence, threat of violence or deception. But even if someone interferes, it is still a market, just not completely free. You could call it the general market, it works, even with some distortion present. It is resilient.

Maybe you should take up a new book some day. There is not only one out there.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
If the EU was just a project for free markets, free travelling and cultural exchange, I would be it's greatest fan.
But I'm not in for "United states of Europe". Definitely not in the totally undemocratic fashion it is now but not in a democratic fashion neither.
Here in Canada the CBC is pushing this side of the EU, and spent a lot of time yesterday interviewing young people who are ignorant of the points made by @satoshis_sockpuppet and @Inca and others and focus a lot on the loss of "EU as a project for free markets, free travelling and cultural exchange" in addition resistance to immigration was also portrayed in the light of racism and intolerance, I think they had a lot of sympathy from listeners.
[doublepost=1466862479][/doublepost]
Oh and I find it extremely funny how many "progressive, urban leftists" are now
a) pissed because "all the poor people" voted for Brexit,
b) pissed because a few banksters (who they wanted to oust a few years ago) are leaving London,
c) pissed because Britons possibly might not want to work for the low wages people from Poland got paid.

Funny how left views align so pretty fine with the views of the 1%. :D
It's not that they align at all but that the
Edward Bernays PR machine is still working and telling them what to think.
 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
wow. That's some powerful stuff. Exactly what I'm thinking, too... anybody have a transcription? I'm usually fond of doing something like this but not now... hmm... anyone know where I could submit this as a task and get it done for a little bitcoin?
https://www.fiverr.com/ lot's of unemployed islanders working on welfare will do it for $5 paid in Bitcoin.
 
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cliff

Active Member
Dec 15, 2015
345
854
The video has problematic assumptions that hurt its credibility:

1. Speaker presumes govt power and fiat is not equally as adverse to the people as banking - it necessarily is b/c a citizen's relationship with the government is transactional. Consequently, he has no solvency for his alternative plan to big finance (i.e., US govt notes as opposed to Fed Reserve notes).

2. The "death grip" via debt examples are turrible.

He points to mortgages as an example of finance run-amuck. He also states if there is a mortgage, a person doesn't own their house.
  • First, most states have a law that says mortgages are not conveyances - they are merely liens. So, banks don't own title to real estate for which they've financed the purchase (or anyone for that matter, bank financing is not the only way to borrow money)
  • Second, as a lien holder, a bank can only debit the asset (the real estate) if they first win an argument in court that the borrower is in default under a valid promissory note AND are otherwise are entitled to foreclose under the terms of the note/contract. A bank can only extract the value of the debt, not more - a borrower will get the remaining equity, if any.
  • Third, this example presumes the borrower is not getting comparable or fair value in exchange for their loans. Depending on the interest rate, it can be a great deal to buy real estate with financing. He provides no examples of what is a usurious and no-usury interest rate (my state says around 18% is usurious, IIRC - I don't know that mortgage lending rates have been that high ever; in 1982, rates were in the 17% range - http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm).
3. The Federal Reserve is not involved in printing money or authorizing the same. The U.S. Treasury does that and the US Govt keeps its money in the Federal Reserve as its Bank. The Federal Reserve can increase or decrease the supply of money on the open market by buying and and selling Treasury bonds/securities (these are not Federal Reserve Notes - the are USG Notes, like the speaker was praising Kennedy for). The money used to buy US G bonds or received when selling them causes the money in circulation ("money supply") to increase or decrease. The Federal Reserve also has the authority to set reserve requirements and interest rates for inter-bank lending. The Fed does not make loans to citizens - its a bankers bank and a bank for the govt.

4. The speaker overlooks the importance of international trade in establishing the value and reliability of a domestic currency. I don't think a government can just print its own money and all its problems are solved b/c it somehow avoids banks. Not in a global marketplace. Plus, you still need a place to store money. Most importantly, this is the world we live in today and the problems he thinks his alternative solves won't go away by following the "one simple trick" or whatever.

5. Overall, the guy is a good speaker, but he appears to be using jargon as a technique of persuasion - a lot of the terms used are not defined and or are used in a way that does not appreciate some serious complexities that exist in the world.

6. He wants to assert the foundation of his argument (finance is the root of control etc), so that the he can start attacking shit. This is a strawperson argument and is fallacious. That's not to say the conclusion is wrong, but he hasn't proved his case.

At all.
 

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
That was not a threat, it was concern, but misplaced. We don't rely on one person, we rely on the market. It is free to the degree no one interferes with violence, threat of violence or deception. But even if someone interferes, it is still a market, just not completely free. You could call it the general market, it works, even with some distortion present. It is resilient.

Maybe you should take up a new book some day. There is not only one out there.

I've read the keynesian and austrian fairytales. It's science fiction. When even this libertarian project turned into organized violence, then that is true for the whole economy anyway.
The real ruler of the markets is always the mafia: private mafia, state mafia or both in complicity.
Just more or less. But that's civilization.

Civilizations are organized in densely populated settlements divided into hierarchical social classes with a ruling elite and subordinate urban and rural populations, which engage in intensive agriculture, mining, small-scale manufacture and trade. Civilization concentrates power, extending human control over the rest of nature, including over other human beings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization
 

lunar

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,001
4,290
A tactic i'm surprised pools haven't used yet, is the voice of proportional hashrate. The idea of not switching to classic entirely, but utilizing some portion of a pools hashpower to voice discontent with development.

Slush has done well here, and hopefully others will follow this direction. However centralised pools like antpool F2pool could easily assign say 20% of their hashpower to mine classic blocks. Perhaps even increase this % as each month passes without resolve. This would have the added bonus of not being 'an attack on bitcoin' as the pool is actively mining on both potential software forks.

Thoughts on this ? Surely its got to be better than a few sternly worded tweets ?
 

Zarathustra

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
1,439
3,797
This was a vote from the average joe to stop uncontrolled immigration and retake control of our labour force, whilst halting the slide towards an unaccountable unelected United States of Europe.
Yes, the labor force demands protection from the state mafia against the competition.
After all they are forced to pay protection money (aka taxes).