Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

Richy_T

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2015
1,085
2,741
Why shouldn't Classic (or BU) have a "fork-now" contingency hardfork version which either immediately activates the 2MB limit, or somewhere within the next 3-7 days?
This would be the Satoshi patch solution. I'd like to see someone give it a try.
[doublepost=1457306936][/doublepost]
Pure gold from MIT Bitcoin Expo! Watch the questions after "Why bitcoin needs a massive block size increase" by Bradley Kam.

The smallblockers getting crushed by Bradley Kam!!!

EDIT: You gotta see it guys! Almost physical fight! Just go to the live stream and rewind!
At about what point in time is it?

Found it. About 2:29:00
 
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cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
the 2nd guy was Paul Sztorc.

TBH, it didn't sound to me like Kam schooled them as much as you indicated. i would've been much more blunt and forceful with some of the theories we've developed right here in this thread. like to the 1st guy, i would've said that SPV mining proves that miners can control their blocksizes at will and that even if we removed the cap completely, miners would be incentivized along the lines of a naturally occurring fee mkt to make blocks just large enough to traverse the network w/o getting orphaned. i would've pulled out the work of @Peter Tschipper along the lines of XThins, XValids, & the soon to be setup XRelay. i would've pointed out to him that there is no evidence that the network can't handle bigger blocks and if so, why hadn't miners attacked the network immediately up to 1MB blocks with spam back when avg blocksizes were 100-200kB? i'd ask the guy why hadn't there been any sustained and repetitive spam prior to July 2015 when blocks got to around 750kB? answer being it was/is now easier and cheaper for spammers to attack as blocks get full; the opposite of what these 1MB'ers think. i'd ask him why is the price still $400 if the network doesn't work? i'd also ask him how he could be so presumptious as to say Bitcoin doesn't work and how the hell he knew that sharding was the answer.

as for Sztorc clown, i'd have immediately responded that from the beginning, Satoshi said the limit was temporary and then pulled out the litany of quotes from BCT indicating that he foresaw Visa level tx's being sent on the network. i'd ask Sztorc how does he know that Satoshi changed his mind? there's no evidence of that. in fact, it's the opposite.

and finally Pindar Wong trying to prop his own 2 Scaling Bitcoin conferences and their presentations therein as the standard upon which we should base our information while totally neglecting the censorship of Peter's paper and the fact that Blockstream folk screened all the talks.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
well again, everything is in the eye of the beholder.

to me, Kam responded to Wong that he'd reviewed all the presentations. when Wong paused from leaving the microphone as Kam said that but decided to go back to his seat anyway, it was apparent to me that Wong was sending a subtle message like "you did? sure doesn't sound like it!" it was that to which the crowd laughed uneasily.
[doublepost=1457310771][/doublepost]not trying to bust your balls @Norway but i think it just goes to show how ppl see things so differently. it's the reason why this debate is so contentious b/c the material is so complex and ppl are so different.
 

Norway

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,424
6,410
@cypherdoc We certainly interpreted Wong differtent. I saw an arogant Wong telling Kam to do his homework, and when Kam said he had, Wong didn't have a response and was laughed at. As you said, it's in the eye of the beholder. ;)
[doublepost=1457311298][/doublepost]

Paul Sztorc
 

dlareg

Member
Feb 19, 2016
39
202
@cypherdoc @Norway It was definitely a strange scene at the MIT Expo! I was pretty surprised that the presenter just started rushing in with a more-or-less non-technical and practical stance that obviously the max block size should be increased. His points were totally reasonable from my perspective of course. But I was thinking the whole time that people are going to be all over this guy. I have to give him credit for doing it. But it was a pretty short presentation and obviously didn't have time to get into any of the technical nuances.

It was pretty humorous to see the questioners go into meltdown mode. You could almost see the smoke coming out of their ears. As if they were like "How dare you just SAY we can raise the block size! You heathen!"

It was hard for me to gauge the sentiment in the room, but it did seem the speaker maintained his composure for the most part. Whether or not the questioners appeared credible is hard for me to say.

Reminds me of the famous Samuel Johnson quote, "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." That is the tar-pit "consensus" strategy of the Core team, and unfortunately very effective.

The rage of the small-blockers is quite amusing. How DARE you even THINK of raising the block size, you FOOL! There may be PROBLEMS!

It's a strange psychological study that they find it utterly offensive to merely suggest the idea. So much for being on the cutting edge of technological frontiers.
 

Inca

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 28, 2015
517
1,679
Pure gold from MIT Bitcoin Expo! Watch the questions after "Why bitcoin needs a massive block size increase" by Bradley Kam.

The smallblockers getting crushed by Bradley Kam!!!

EDIT: You gotta see it guys! Almost physical fight! Just go to the live stream and rewind!
Quite keen to watch it. Looked through the whole linked video and cannot locate it. It wasn't at 2:28 either.

EDIT: I am almost certain theymos has had a tap on the shoulder, either from the reddit admins warning him or from some big players in the scene who fear for the entire bitcoin ecosystem regarding his inflammatory censorship..
 

freetrader

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 16, 2015
2,806
6,088
I am almost certain theymos has had a tap on the shoulder, either from the reddit admins warning him or from some big players in the scene who fear for the entire bitcoin ecosystem regarding his inflammatory censorship..
Maybe Brian's mention of their censorship on his blog helped ?

I hope they take a close look at shoddy modding practices going in /r/bitcoin, among other unholy activities there.

The sockpuppet / social media manipulation brigade is still out in full force though. I notice they've recently branched out to other bitcoin subs much more.
 
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cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
12,995
@cypherdoc @Norway It was definitely a strange scene at the MIT Expo! I was pretty surprised that the presenter just started rushing in with a more-or-less non-technical and practical stance that obviously the max block size should be increased. His points were totally reasonable from my perspective of course. But I was thinking the whole time that people are going to be all over this guy. I have to give him credit for doing it. But it was a pretty short presentation and obviously didn't have time to get into any of the technical nuances.

It was pretty humorous to see the questioners go into meltdown mode. You could almost see the smoke coming out of their ears. As if they were like "How dare you just SAY we can raise the block size! You heathen!"

It was hard for me to gauge the sentiment in the room, but it did seem the speaker maintained his composure for the most part. Whether or not the questioners appeared credible is hard for me to say.

Reminds me of the famous Samuel Johnson quote, "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." That is the tar-pit "consensus" strategy of the Core team, and unfortunately very effective.

The rage of the small-blockers is quite amusing. How DARE you even THINK of raising the block size, you FOOL! There may be PROBLEMS!

It's a strange psychological study that they find it utterly offensive to merely suggest the idea. So much for being on the cutting edge of technological frontiers.
none of those pricks invented Bitcoin and didn't get it until 2013 with the huge price run up. and now they dare say they know how to fix it. of course, you gotta pay them to do it! the hypocrisy runs high.
 

VeritasSapere

Active Member
Nov 16, 2015
511
1,266
This post calmed my concerns towards libsecs56k1 somewhat as a layman of cryptography. :)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=937058.msg10278072#msg10278072

I agree with you completely @cypherdoc, credit where credit is due though, they might have flawed understandings of economics but they certainly do know how to optimize code.

Fortunately for us thanks to open source we can have the best from both worlds. Optimized code with sound economic theory, thank you Bitcoin Classic, Core and Unlimited. ;)
 
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