Ouch, I can assure you it is not just the miners who will feel the pain, @Norway !
Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
- Thread starter cypherdoc
- Start date
Christoph Bergmann
Active Member
Does anybody have historic data of the market share of the top-20-altcoins?
Right now they have about 25% of Bitcoin's market share.
I thnk I've never seen any altcoin gaining such a high market cap as ethereum.
Right now they have about 25% of Bitcoin's market share.
I thnk I've never seen any altcoin gaining such a high market cap as ethereum.
Miners seem to think, that price drops come from "unnecessary fighting over the blocksize" and not from running Bitcoin into the next wall.
I'm not so optimistic, that even a crash to <200$ would set them straight.
With the current miners we are doomed. It's 2016 and BitFury finally seems to think it might be a good idea to listen to people from the other side.
And here we are again: At the beginning of a "scaling debate". If 2 MB is safe. In 2016, with full blocks and Ethereum eating Bitcoins lunch. Stalling, stalling, stalling until we crash.
(On the other hand, if we took a plane as an analogy, a stalling plane just drops from the sky if you let the stalling continue. The only possibility to rescue us would be a nosedive. Who knows..)
I'm not so optimistic, that even a crash to <200$ would set them straight.
With the current miners we are doomed. It's 2016 and BitFury finally seems to think it might be a good idea to listen to people from the other side.
And here we are again: At the beginning of a "scaling debate". If 2 MB is safe. In 2016, with full blocks and Ethereum eating Bitcoins lunch. Stalling, stalling, stalling until we crash.
(On the other hand, if we took a plane as an analogy, a stalling plane just drops from the sky if you let the stalling continue. The only possibility to rescue us would be a nosedive. Who knows..)
@SysMan I assume you are Alex Petrov https://twitter.com/sysmannet on twitter.
Just saw you reposted this strange chart about LOC in bitcoin.
First, two reddit threads for you to read carefully:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/45g3d5/rewriting_history_greg_maxwell_is_claiming_some/
Apart from that, LOC is an extremely bad measurement for positive input. Bitcoin Core is developing on non existing problems or optimizing non problems at the moment.
For example, look at SegWit, it could be safely deployed as a hardfork in a year or so, after reasonable testing etc. Instead, Core writes an ugly hack to deploy it as a softfork, which bloats the code base, makes the code unecessary complex and has no benefit at all. This isn't software development for a multi billion dollar product, this is irresponsible hacking.
If the chart were correct, which it isn't, do you really think Wuille did more important work to Bitcoin than Satoshi or even Gavin? If so, I don't have any doubt any more that Bitcoin needs to replace the current PoW to fire the miners.
And, at last, two quotes for you to think about, the first by Donald Knuth, the second by Bill Gates:
Just saw you reposted this strange chart about LOC in bitcoin.
First, two reddit threads for you to read carefully:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/45g3d5/rewriting_history_greg_maxwell_is_claiming_some/
Apart from that, LOC is an extremely bad measurement for positive input. Bitcoin Core is developing on non existing problems or optimizing non problems at the moment.
For example, look at SegWit, it could be safely deployed as a hardfork in a year or so, after reasonable testing etc. Instead, Core writes an ugly hack to deploy it as a softfork, which bloats the code base, makes the code unecessary complex and has no benefit at all. This isn't software development for a multi billion dollar product, this is irresponsible hacking.
If the chart were correct, which it isn't, do you really think Wuille did more important work to Bitcoin than Satoshi or even Gavin? If so, I don't have any doubt any more that Bitcoin needs to replace the current PoW to fire the miners.
And, at last, two quotes for you to think about, the first by Donald Knuth, the second by Bill Gates:
- Aug 28, 2015
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History rhymes rather than repeats they say. And boy is it rhyming hard right now. I sold out of my paltry 1% stash of ethereum far too early twenty four hours ago. Now I am left to hope for a crash back into bitcoin or more capital overflowing into monero instead. One actual possibility is that the super bubble we have all awaited does not strike bitcoin but actually sucks out the value from it into another blockchain (where we do not hold private keys).
Adapt or fail.
Bitcoin is approaching its potential myspace moment and of all the times in the last few years I have worried this is resonating most powerfully right now. We are witnessing an existential crisis of the like I have not seen before. Long time holders from 2011 are liquidating. Names I have read for years and respected are moving on and with trembling hands I have begun the process of mobilising my coins from cold storage.
The only thing bitcoin has is its store of value and first mover status in a world with hundreds of alternative chains vy for attention. As soon as the first is attacked successfully the second will cease to matter. The speculative store of value attached to bitcoin is driven by the prospect of further investment in the future to buy up coin emission and expand the user base. Thus, bitcoin has been a heavily asymmetrical financial option on the future.
The 'core' team are now aggressively acting to freeze bitcoin in a state of severe dysfunction with an arbitrary transaction cap which will utterly destroy the value proposition implicitly understood by those who matter the most in the scene - not the miners, certainly not the coders - the users and those investors who give the currency value.
Value is shifting massively between chains for the first time in the history of bitcoin. To stop the torrent become an unstoppable tidal wave the community and in particular the miners need to act NOW, immediately to fork to the only scaling solution that exists today.
What use is the fucking lightning network if no one is using bitcoin because all value has moved to ethereum or other chains. How unbelievably predictable was this situation. :/
Adapt or fail.
Bitcoin is approaching its potential myspace moment and of all the times in the last few years I have worried this is resonating most powerfully right now. We are witnessing an existential crisis of the like I have not seen before. Long time holders from 2011 are liquidating. Names I have read for years and respected are moving on and with trembling hands I have begun the process of mobilising my coins from cold storage.
The only thing bitcoin has is its store of value and first mover status in a world with hundreds of alternative chains vy for attention. As soon as the first is attacked successfully the second will cease to matter. The speculative store of value attached to bitcoin is driven by the prospect of further investment in the future to buy up coin emission and expand the user base. Thus, bitcoin has been a heavily asymmetrical financial option on the future.
The 'core' team are now aggressively acting to freeze bitcoin in a state of severe dysfunction with an arbitrary transaction cap which will utterly destroy the value proposition implicitly understood by those who matter the most in the scene - not the miners, certainly not the coders - the users and those investors who give the currency value.
Value is shifting massively between chains for the first time in the history of bitcoin. To stop the torrent become an unstoppable tidal wave the community and in particular the miners need to act NOW, immediately to fork to the only scaling solution that exists today.
What use is the fucking lightning network if no one is using bitcoin because all value has moved to ethereum or other chains. How unbelievably predictable was this situation. :/
Seriously, look at any string of quotes from the guy on slack, reddit or twitter. He's a complete fool outside of his narrow technical area of specialty. Not unusual in these kind of geeky specialities like cryptography.
lunar
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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Bitcoin collapsing Altcoins Up.
You mining cartels better do something soon or you're going to be left with warehouses of worthless hardware.
You mining cartels better do something soon or you're going to be left with warehouses of worthless hardware.
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Not sure what exactly you mean by "guys", "serious" or "initiative" in this context...
Off the cuff, this entity, known locally as @largerblocks, seems intent on a PoW-based fork:
https://github.com/satoshisbitcoin/satoshisbitcoin
Thread in this forum:
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/announcement-bitcoin-project-to-full-fork-to-flexible-blocksizes.933/
The total cap in December was around 6% wish I had collected that data.
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@Justus Ranvier: so we should all stick with 1mb and use the blockchain more efficiently?
What planet do these people live on? Meanwhile the price is plummeting.
EDIT: it does show up after clicking 'extra responses'. Nice reply.
What planet do these people live on? Meanwhile the price is plummeting.
EDIT: it does show up after clicking 'extra responses'. Nice reply.
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It's not just miners it's Core fundamentalist who are blaming the price drop on the "unnecessary fighting over the blocksize" or in other words "unwillingness" to accept the centralized authorities authority, that bigger blocks break bitcoin and that bitcoin is already broken come halving time so just sit back and let us change it for you.
_mr_e
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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@Justus Ranvier ,
Whatever happened with OT? Weren't you part of that team? I had believed that OT was going to give us ethereum level programmable smart contracts, far more efficiently, for far less cost without the need for a seperate blockchain. Now it appears OT has become vaporware. Are you still involved in the project and is there anything you can say about how it relates to ethereum? Why do you believe there can only be one blockchain when bitcoin lacks so much of ethereum's functionality?
Whatever happened with OT? Weren't you part of that team? I had believed that OT was going to give us ethereum level programmable smart contracts, far more efficiently, for far less cost without the need for a seperate blockchain. Now it appears OT has become vaporware. Are you still involved in the project and is there anything you can say about how it relates to ethereum? Why do you believe there can only be one blockchain when bitcoin lacks so much of ethereum's functionality?
@_mr_e https://github.com/justusranvier/opentxs/commits/develop
OT development is slow right now with just two people working on it.
I'm not sure that "ethereum level smart contracts" are the most pressing use case though, even though smart contract functionality works in OT today.
OT development is slow right now with just two people working on it.
I'm not sure that "ethereum level smart contracts" are the most pressing use case though, even though smart contract functionality works in OT today.
lunar
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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great series of charts showing the shift in economic policy over the last two years.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.cz/2016/03/more-on-transaction-fees-and-block-size.html
[doublepost=1457195042][/doublepost]@Justus Ranvier
http://organofcorti.blogspot.cz/2016/03/more-on-transaction-fees-and-block-size.html
[doublepost=1457195042][/doublepost]@Justus Ranvier
Didn't Monetas do a fork of OT or something? Don't hear much about that?
- @Justus Ranvier No. I can't see any comments on that article. It would be great if you added it to your post. I was a little surprised after reading it I agree we need to use the blockchain in an efficient way totally disagree failing to do so is resulting in a Tragedy of the Commons.
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