Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[VeritasSapere]

I posted the entire conversation I had with Greg Maxwell. I did promise I would do so, for posterity and so that it is easier for everyone here to read and find this discussion. I might do a deeper analysis of this dialectic at some point, but most of the reasoning contained within is self evident.

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/discussion-with-greg-maxwell.841/

 

[cypherdoc]

@cypherdoc

Soft forks, all of them, are hacks/tricks by definitions.

That said, even if PT is, maybe, helping killing SegWit as a SF, it is worth notice that at the same time he is saying that activation threshold for a any HFs should be 99%+ "measured over multi-week timespan".

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012309.html

well then, a SWHF should be held to the same standard; 99% activation threshold. the PT fix of SW cutting off old nodes is a HF.

 

[awemany]

I posted the entire conversation I had with Greg Maxwell. I did promise I would do so, for prosperity and so that it is easier for everyone here to read and find this discussion. I might do a deeper analysis of this dialectic at some point, but most of the reasoning contained within is self evident.

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/my-conversation-with-greg-maxwell.841/

I am not a native English speaker, but isn't that posterity instead of prosperity?

 

[VeritasSapere]

You are correct, thanks. I have adjusted it, ironically, for posterity.

Its funny been saying prosperity this whole time, not realizing the difference in meaning. I suppose I figured posterity is for our prosperity.

 

[Aquent]

Things are heating up in China. Huge currents are on the move already, and clogs moving.

All is up in the air. No one yet knows which way it will go. Thus if powerful arguments are to be made, now is the time. I tried to address some of them: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/43f9uy/on_cores_theology_of_hardforks/

Hopefully we get it translated into chinese.

 

[lunar]

Could you have a dynamic activation point for a hard fork?

Perhaps 100%hashrate - (Size of largest pool +5%) This way no one pool could derail the process.

Edit: might work better 50%hashrate + (Size of largest pool +5%)

 

[Erdogan]

I want every extra functionality and improvement of small transactions, immediate finalization with a guarantee and so on, done as a layer above the basic sound money bitcoin. (If necessary with a trusted third party service).

Joinmarket is a top example. The new joinmarket-gui
https://github.com/AdamISZ/JMBinary/blob/master/README.md
is glittering. No more sending coins to a mixing service that runs away when a large transaction comes by.

 

[cypherdoc]

sorry guys, had to change out my public key. let me know if there's a better place to post it here in the forum:

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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=WdJj
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

 

[Justus Ranvier]

sorry guys, had to change out my public key. let me know if there's a better place to post it here in the forum:

I got a Twitter DM from @cypherdoc containing this same key and the request:

can u verify my pubkey here for everyone with the one over in the gold thread?

Key verification is always tricky business. I guess I can verify that the same person controls the cypherdoc account here and on Twitter right now.

The key itself is weird though, with a claimed creation date in 2014.

 

[cypherdoc]

it's a key i generated in 2014.

 

[AdrianX]

well then, a SWHF should be held to the same standard; 99% activation threshold. the PT fix of SW cutting off old nodes is a HF.

No it should just be held go their standards. They just don't understand why just 60% support for a HF on block size will result in 100% support. However a SWHF won't have the same network effect and will need almost 99% support. That's why are so fundamental about preventing on blockchain growth not just because the have a conflict but because it's the only leverage they have to integrate their changes.
[doublepost=1454183042][/doublepost]

I got a Twitter DM from @cypherdoc containing this same key and the request:


Key verification is always tricky business. I guess I can verify that the same person controls the cypherdoc account here and on Twitter right now.

The key itself is weird though, with a claimed creation date in 2014.

Hey @cypherdoc have you been compromised you know we don't follow you but the individuals who contribute to this thread... right ...

 

[rocks]

Now that we know the answer to the current pole (Classic is going with a 75% activation threshold), I'm curious to know people's thoughts on what is the best course of action if activation does not happen due to some Chinese miners acting as holdouts.

Poll: What is the best course of action if Classic does not activate?
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/poll-what-is-the-best-course-of-action-if-classic-does-not-activate.842/

 

[cypherdoc]

[doublepost=1454183678][/doublepost]FFS, it looks like this was deleted from r/Bitcoin like in <= 1min:

cypherdoc2 2 points 6 minutes ago*

i think it is you who is being misleading. see bolded:

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 01:51:24PM -0500, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote: While Pieter Wuille's segwit branch(1) doesn't yet implement a fix for the above problem, the obvious thing to do is to add a new service bit such as NODE_SEGWIT, and/or bump the protocol version, and for outgoing peers only connect to peers with segwit support.

If I'm following the code right, the segwit branch has a fHaveWitness flag for each connection, which is set when a HAVEWITNESS message comes from the peer, and HAVEWITNESS is sent as part of handshaking. BIP144 suggests maybe this should be changed to a service bit though:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0144.mediawiki

If you've got a limit of 8 outgoing connections and >4 of them don't support witnesses,would it be enough to just drop a non-witness connection and try a new one?Or is anything less than 8 of 8 outgoing witness supporting connections likely to be bad for the network?

if i understand this right, SW nodes will now drop all old nodes off it's network effectively turning SW into a HF. so you can no longer call SW a SF. so in that sense, SWSF is indeed not safe. we should call it SWHF (hardfork). this doesn't help partitioning, this solidifies it.

what happened to all the FUD talk of the necessity of maintaining backwards compatibility with old nodes and the importance of maintaining consensus? this still does nothing to increase the % of SW nodes otherwise. and you still can't measure the % of p2p nodes who will or will not upgrade. and the long term strategy of SW is to adopt and scale "partially validating SPV nodes" which will only compound the partitioning problem.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/43bgrs/peter_todd_sw_is_not_safe_as_a_softfork/

• permalink
• parent
• disable inbox replies
• delete
• reply

[doublepost=1454184303,1454183609][/doublepost]hmm. here's the above thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/43fadt/peter_todd_segwit_is_not_safe_to_deploy_as_a_soft/

 

[solex]

Classic is going with 80% now.

https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/60/files

Maybe this is a compromise with the Chinese miners who wanted 90%

EDIT: PR is closed. Ignore this.

 

[cypherdoc]

@solex

why does that PR say "closed"? and why don't those have dates on them? is it old? be pretty stupid to change things now when already ~61 nodes are up and running.

 

[Erdogan]

Now that we know the answer to the current pole (Classic is going with a 75% activation threshold), I'm curious to know people's thoughts on what is the best course of action if activation does not happen due to some Chinese miners acting as holdouts.

Poll: What is the best course of action if Classic does not activate?
https://bitco.in/forum/threads/poll-what-is-the-best-course-of-action-if-classic-does-not-activate.842/

Someone just mine a friggin largeblock.

 

[solex]

@cypherdoc. Good point. didn't see "closed".

 

[Justus Ranvier]

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/43fs64/how_the_cult_of_decentralization_is_manipulating/

 

[awemany]

@cypherdoc:

In case you still have control of your old key but for some reason now fear that is compromised:

Sign the new key with it and sign a revocation certificate of the old key with the old key.

 

[cypherdoc]

@awemany

it's not compromised. it's an old keybase.io key. anybody else able to get that site working? it keeps asking for a pwd to sign something which i apparently forgot to record. never used it before. so i just pulled out another one i made back in 2014.