Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
- Thread starter cypherdoc
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@Justus Ranvier
Yes, who knows? After using reddit for almost 3 years i can say, moderators never felt that it was important to follow the letter of the law, just the intent. This Block size debate just shows up how impractical the letter of the law is when you push intent to the extreme.
If someone chooses to sensor based on silly rules, then the rules are just a tool to prevent ides gaining credit on their own merit.
Yes, who knows? After using reddit for almost 3 years i can say, moderators never felt that it was important to follow the letter of the law, just the intent. This Block size debate just shows up how impractical the letter of the law is when you push intent to the extreme.
If someone chooses to sensor based on silly rules, then the rules are just a tool to prevent ides gaining credit on their own merit.
Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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This is well put and succinct:
https://medium.com/@elliotolds/the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-is-not-about-technical-expertise-d3434beb04b2#.2pt5wmuk6
Would be nice to put that one to rest.
https://medium.com/@elliotolds/the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-is-not-about-technical-expertise-d3434beb04b2#.2pt5wmuk6
Would be nice to put that one to rest.
adam3us norway: nope. i am polite enough to engage. and i am honest and dont dodge questions. the tough question capacity of this entire channel jumped by cypherdoc getting in here.
(otherwise it was kind of easy to date FAQs only)
(otherwise it was kind of easy to date FAQs only)
Melbustus
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Hate to say it, but I've had similar thoughts. If the market of free individuals fails to act in their own net economic interest on this, it suggests that free markets are less able to be net-optimizing/rational than I tend to believe, even when the stakes are large. Granted it'd be a sample-set of 1, but nevertheless bitcoin is a uniquely good experiment in free market dynamics.
Melbustus
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@cypherdoc - yeah, we have raw numbers, plus key devs, plus just about the entire company ecosystem on our side here, but it's nevertheless frustrating how long this has already taken and is likely to take to get to the finish line.
@Melbustus
well, i got Adam on smackdown mode right now in both Slack Welcome & Debate channels. that helps
[doublepost=1454112749][/doublepost]adam3us[3:29 PM]cypherdoc: no i like you: smart & ask interesting/tough questions. also a little inner troll but hey i appreciate that too :simple_smile:
well, i got Adam on smackdown mode right now in both Slack Welcome & Debate channels. that helps
[doublepost=1454112749][/doublepost]adam3us[3:29 PM]cypherdoc: no i like you: smart & ask interesting/tough questions. also a little inner troll but hey i appreciate that too :simple_smile:
oh Peter Todd, how i love you:
"A significant design consideration is that if arbitrary data can be
added, it is very likely that miners will make use of that ability for
non-Bitcoin purposes; we've already run into problems deploying segwit
itself because of pools using the coinbase space for advertising and
merge-mining. Avoiding this problem is easiest with a merkelized
key:value mapping, with the ability to use collision-resistant ID's as
keys (e.g. UUID).
Secondly, does using the coinbase witness for this really make sense?
Logically it'd make more sense to change the way blocks are serialized,
much the same way transaction serialization was changed to accomodate
segwit; stuffing this in the coinbase witness smells like a hack. (along
those lines, note how witnesses themselves could have been implemented
this way - probably too late to change now)"
"A significant design consideration is that if arbitrary data can be
added, it is very likely that miners will make use of that ability for
non-Bitcoin purposes; we've already run into problems deploying segwit
itself because of pools using the coinbase space for advertising and
merge-mining. Avoiding this problem is easiest with a merkelized
key:value mapping, with the ability to use collision-resistant ID's as
keys (e.g. UUID).
Secondly, does using the coinbase witness for this really make sense?
Logically it'd make more sense to change the way blocks are serialized,
much the same way transaction serialization was changed to accomodate
segwit; stuffing this in the coinbase witness smells like a hack. (along
those lines, note how witnesses themselves could have been implemented
this way - probably too late to change now)"
lunar
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Melbustus
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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http://gavinandresen.ninja/minority-branches
67% activation threshold seems reasonable.
(emphasis mine)
67% activation threshold seems reasonable.
sorry guys, i may need this later. bookmarking this:
cypherdoc[12:07 PM]the difference is that with a HF @ 75%, we are *intentionally* partitioning away the old nodes b/c we are CONFIDENT that the economic majority (users/miners) will reorg the network to the 2MB fork. the 95% SWSF folks are NOT CONFIDENT that their strategy is sound, thus they elect to try and fool old nodes into going along.
cypherdoc[12:07 PM]the difference is that with a HF @ 75%, we are *intentionally* partitioning away the old nodes b/c we are CONFIDENT that the economic majority (users/miners) will reorg the network to the 2MB fork. the 95% SWSF folks are NOT CONFIDENT that their strategy is sound, thus they elect to try and fool old nodes into going along.
It's not that that free markets are less able to be net-optimizing/rational, it has to do with comprehending information in the market place.
I used to believe anyone capable of complex speech had the ability to understanding complex ideas, I think that's just less true people who don't understand the interrelationship of those ideas are being manipulated. The rationality of markets is falling victim to propaganda, and mental shortcuts in understanding and trust. We're witnessing an intentional propaganda war for the next step in the organizational hierarchy of society.
Given enough time (even generations), this will sort itself out Bitcoin may improve the status quo just enough to keep the old power structure in place or we may get a quantum jump, it is entirely dependent on enough people understanding the interrelationship of complex ideas. Bitcoin having lasted this long gives me hope.
Personally I'm humbled by the number of insightful posts popping up, what I'm not sure of is if its confirmation bias on my part, or if I've fallen victim to ignoring ignorant trolls, or if progress is being made. I may be delusional but I think collectively the bitcoin network is making progress and building up an immune response to a centralized control authority. (looking at you Adam and Greg)
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I know this entire blocksize civil war was giving me ulcers for weeks until I investigated Ethereum and decided to diversify my cryptocurrency investment.
If you see Ethereum as an "alt" that's unfortunate. It's something quite different from Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. Perhaps at some point you can investigate it with a fresh perspective and without having your mind already made up.
