Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Justus Ranvier]

Actually, it doesn't appear to be correct that btcdrak was one of the people explicitly calling for a license change for Bitcoin Core in this link. It appears to only be phantomcircuit.

btcdrak
gmaxwell: I dont think relicensing is the solution.

 

[AdrianX]

@Aquent: I am still pondering whether it might be reverse psychology. As in 'make people really angry so we're actually more likely to get the desired change (BIP101)'. (That would be an underhanded tactic I would despise, while still being pro BIP101 or no-limit).

Either that, or coercion from TLAs.

The whole weird Bitcoin space now really reached comical levels of ridiculousness.

You need to watch the "The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear", what you describe above is a microcosm of the macrocosm that has been at play for decades.

The only compass you have is your moral compass and only those capable of independent analysis and conclusion can navigating this landscape. we're all being plaid.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

I get the impression that Luke-jr is making his way onto the list to get purged. They already did Mike Hearn and Gavin, Garzik getting iced out feels like it's in progress.

That's certainly one way of creating consensus...
[doublepost=1450212596][/doublepost]

If Bitcoin is to succeed, it must confront and overcome everything that could possibly destroy it.

This is a quite a statement when you think about it. Bitcoin not only has to be able to overcome everything, it has to actually get hit with everything. We're going to see everything. At least everything that there is motivation to do (we may not see any 51% attacks, but we certainly will see co-option attempts).

 

[chriswilmer]

One of the supposed silver linings you guys keep mentioning is that people like btcdrak are increasingly "revealing their true colors." Well... why was he just added as a mod to /r/btc then? That's part of what is depressing here... you would think that after all of that color revealing it would be hard for someone like btcdrak to maintain influence and yet it *grows*.

I've never been much into politics, but this feels like what I imagine it's like when the political party you passionately dislike wins the general election (or appears to be winning anyway). Then you just have to wait years and years (decades?) before a power-shift/struggle creates new opportunities.

 

[VeritasSapere]

You need to watch the "The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear", what you describe above is a microcosm of the macrocosm that has been at play for decades.

The only compass you have is your moral compass and only those capable of independent analysis and conclusion can navigating this landscape. we're all being plaid.

It is great to hear someone else who is familiar with that documentary, it has been a long time since I have even heard anyone even mention it. Very cool, I feel at home here.

Check out "century of self" as well, it was another documentary that gave me deep insights around that period in my life at least.

 

[cypherdoc]

not to forgive Roger, but btcdrak did mention that he'd been in conversations with Roger.

oftentimes on the internet, unfortunately, merely initiating a convo with someone seems to legitimize that person if they sound friendly or reasonable in the moment. esp if there's an ongoing dialog which seems to be the case here. Roger probably got impressed thinking, "wow, here's someone reasonable from the other side. maybe i'll offer to have him be a mod just to prove i'm trying to do the right thing". or maybe even btcdrak offered that. wouldn't be surprised, him wanting to be an infiltrator.

sad situation all around.

i guess the positive spin on all this drama is that if what i say is true that most ppl (>99.9%) are going to lose money investing in crypto, then that means all those ppl are going to be complaining and creating drama all along the way to the finish line every which way we turn.
[doublepost=1450213993][/doublepost]i just have to laugh at this one @bitsko :

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3wyg60/ubtcdrak_expert_troll_infiltrator_can_kiss_my_ass/

 

[VeritasSapere]

While I am on the subject of old political documentaries, check out "the money masters" as well, it talks about the history of Fiat and how we ended up in this position in the first place, I do not actually agree with his conclusions but the history is fascinating.

 

[cypherdoc]

this one's good too

https://forum.bitcoin.com/topic3999.html
[doublepost=1450214555][/doublepost]

While I am on the subject of old political documentaries, check out "the money masters" as well, it talks about the history of Fiat and how we ended up in this position in the first place, I do not actually agree with his conclusions but the history is fascinating.

might as well listen to this latest Econtalk podcast with George Selgin where he reviews the 2008 crisis. he's got it right about Excess Reserves. banks were not only handed this printed money to shore up their balance sheets but the Fed perversely is paying them interest to take it! such bullshit! his stated reason was to try and keep the Fed Funds Rate @2%, which failed, but another way of saying it is that the Fed didn't want all those Excess Reserves pouring out into the economy causing inflation. problem is, they're stuck not being able to take it back or the banks will go under. thus, the moral hazard continues and citizens pay up the wazoo to keep their game going.

http://www.econtalk.org/#

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

@chriswilmer

There are a few possible subtleties to the btcdrak thing:

1) The way reddit moderation works is that the earlier mods have absolute power over every mod that came later. That means btcdrak has veto power over no one, and definitely not over Roger - no one does.

2) Roger Ver has practiced jujitsu for a long time, which is a martial art that involves "manipulating the opponent's force against himself rather than confronting it with one's own force." [Wikipedia]

Combine these two and we may have an interesting play here. What could be more damning to Core than to give its worst impulses a megaphone?

Still, this is probably overthinking it. Occam's Razor would say Roger was simply asleep at the wheel. How could he not know this move would cause people to leave the sub in droves? If he's that disconnected with the situation on the ground, and some of the other questionable mod choices seem to bear this out, we can of course write off any more subtle strategies. However, the jujitsu mindset may have driven him heuristically to "keep his friends close and enemies closer." It might turn out to be a stroke of genius. People like btcdrak + Power = ???? Somehow I don't think that many people will stick around to find out, unless drak really does play nice, which it looks like he isn't.
[doublepost=1450214746][/doublepost]

i guess the positive spin on all this drama is that if what i say is true that most ppl (>99.9%) are going to lose money investing in crypto, then that means all those ppl are going to be complaining and creating drama all along the way to the finish line every which way we turn.

Yup. Every step of the way. The drama of 2011-2013 looks so quaint now, doesn't it?

 

[awemany]

@Zangelbert Bingledack : That's about what I was thinking for a moment. The problem is that such a trick could backfire on Roger Ver's reputation, too...

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

While I am on the subject of old political documentaries, check out "the money masters" as well, it talks about the history of Fiat and how we ended up in this position in the first place, I do not actually agree with his conclusions but the history is fascinating.

Bad economics (especially recommending fiat money as the solution) and questionable quote attribution in parts, but still so worth it for the historical sweep. Give someone this video to scare them stiff about the Federal Reserve, then teach them some economics so they actually understand what to do, and you have a hard money advocate for life.

 

[cypherdoc]

well, for some positive news. this is freaking amazing:

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

@awemany

Well he probably thinks people would see it as a fairness thing.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

At least I think we can trust Jameson Lopp. The guy just seems not to have a chip on his shoulder and he seems to be an all-around stand up guy, easygoing, hands off, not seeking power, just the right mindset for a mod. Hopefully the lead mod of /r/BitcoinXT is similar.

One thing that should be obvious I think: you don't ban people for insulting mods, and especially not for "talking back" to them. Mods should have thicker skins and be held to a higher standard than normal users, to compensate for the power differential.

 

[Badbeat]

Maybe this is a good time to try to promote /r/BitcoinUnlimited. I personally didn't even know it existed(and the first thread I check for my Bitcoin needs is this thread) until I just checked it out of curiosity.

Is there a reason why there is limited discussion there?

Just crossposting stuff from this forum would create a subreddit that would rival others in the bitcoin space.

 

[cypherdoc]

@Badbeat

could work.

i think the lack of activity is b/c of it's relatively late coming amongst all the others. @seweso asked me to be a moderator over there as well as several other folks from this thread. i know i'd be the same as i am here. hands off:

[doublepost=1450218976][/doublepost]keep your eye on the ball:

[doublepost=1450219015][/doublepost]

 

[cliff]

Does sanity live here?

 

[sickpig]

@cliff it seems so. welcome on board and enjoy the ride.

 

[lunar]

Two stories you might have missed?

Looks like the days of a decentralised Ripple being considered 'competition' have passed.

“Thus, in the best interest of the Ripple ecosystem, we are discontinuing support for Ripple Trade in early 2016. The exact date is to be determined as we’re focused right now on providing a smooth a transition to new wallets and gateway services for Ripple Trade customers.” ~ Ripple Support

http://bitcoinist.net/wait-ripple-centralized/

also.
Cyprus style banking bail in - AKA theft, has lead to a tragic suicide. Hints at full blown banking crisis in Italy. Other sources (Reuters) say the bailed out banks have mis sold high risk bonds.
Contagion
http://www.businessinsider.com/italian-banking-system-in-serious-trouble-2015-12

“The Italian banking system is in serious trouble, and the failure of these four banks is simply the tip of the iceberg."

2016 is shaping up to be a doozy

 

[solex]

@cliff Welcome, we think so.

Regarding r/btc moderation. I think that Roger was taken aback by the "cesspool" remark, and although he has doubt's about gmax's scaling agenda, still gives his general views credence. So he appointed btcdrak to mitigate what imagines warrants such a view.

This is a mistake. Btcdrak is divisive and I rarely find any of his comments constructive. His avatar is of Gollum and yet his demeanor is very much like Wormtongue, the servant of Saruman. His closeness to Core Dev is that of a groupie who is so often seen around the main act that casual obververs consider him part of it. I don't see any dev contribution to the codebase from him, just to BIP68,105,112 text.