Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Zarathustra]

 

[_bc]

Sorry but does this chart account for batching, lightning, exchange2exchange, coinjoin, BITMEX!? Looks like it doesn't even include segwit!? I'm honestly not sure what it's trying to prove?

It accounts for BTC and BSV transactions that are mined. Segwit is included, though, you have to squint and zoom to see it. It's log-scale, so, SegWit's minimal-percentage benefit barely registers - but it definitely shows blocks are greater than 1 MB.

 

[trinoxol]

A full transcript document has been put online: https://www.docdroid.net/5LZMLHb/06-28-19-ber-kleiman.pdf

 

[Zarathustra]

[doublepost=1562342111][/doublepost]

Serious question: what is with this capitalization of BitCoin?

We imitate Satoshi. Spelling Bitcoin or BitCoin.

 

[79b79aa8]

research from a small block point of view :

SPV, while reducing the resource costs of operating a network node, comes with a number of security and privacy weaknesses not present in full nodes. SPV nodes rely on fully validating nodes to enforce the rules of the system as they cannot do so themselves. An adversary with sufficient hashing power can present transactions which SPV nodes will accept as confirmed, but which will be rejected by fully validating nodes. While improving the security and privacy of SPV is a promising area of research, this work focuses only on fully validating nodes, and on reducing the resource requirements to run one.

https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/611.pdf

 

[cypherdoc]

It accounts for BTC and BSV transactions that are mined. Segwit is included, though, you have to squint and zoom to see it. It's log-scale, so, SegWit's minimal-percentage benefit barely registers - but it definitely shows blocks are greater than 1 MB.

well, the real point of the graph was not to highlight the limp and getting limper BTC graph but contrast the relatively sharp rise in BSV blocksize.

 

[freetrader]

I have taken high-end staff, including our CTO and others of nChain, who were working on projects, and have them instead analyzing how I told them I mined and what structure I used in the addressing, so that they can pull those addresses out with a slight probabilistic error at worst.

Someone should have nailed him on the "slight probabilistic error" and the failure of this effort.

Also, LOL at "Satoshi" recruiting his unmentioned employees to try to derive the addresses of his mined coins. If you buy that, you'll buy anything.

There is no way to get the addresses without getting to the private keys first.

You think "Satoshi" would put that knowledge in the heads of various employees at nChain?
Don't pass the blunt cause you must be smoking some weird shit.

@shadders & co, you like being framed as the possible thieves of "Satoshi's coins" once they start moving?

 

[cypherdoc]

research from a small block point of view :

https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/611.pdf

the hypocrisy Core uses against SPV is that LN has been forced to implement a slightly improved form SPV (depending on how you look at it) to enable workaround smartphone wallets like Eclair and Neutrino. those LN wallets still depend on full node servers to serve up GCS "filters" of every mined block upon which they can then locally hunt for relevant addresses. the dependence has not been solved. yet they criticize SPV relentlessly.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Ascribing market value to information doesn't divide or exclude people, it unites them, the most important information and voices rise to the surface. The alternative is a world run by warring anonymous trolls and massive social media campaigns, controlled by competing corporations, placing nonsense, money making, and political agendas on equal footing to established and tested, scientific facts in the search for truth.

The current Internet operates via economics, or else it wouldn't work at all, but it is a clunky, haphazard, ad hoc, taped-together, unpredictable, high-friction system because the base substrate reflects a socialistic bent or at least a total lack of allowance for economics. Bitcoin changes that via Metanet and subsequent layers on top of that chassis. When Bitcoin has supplanted the entire Internet, every piece of data - in fact every single transistor - will have economics baked into its very DNA.

It will also be transparent natively, though hidden behind a veil of privacy via Bitcoin's pseudonymity. A veil that can be pulled back only by due process of law, and at considerable cost per investigated individual. As such, investigations will be reserved for high-value targets after establishing probable cause. This is the only kind of privacy that lasts. Anything that tries to flaunt centuries of law around ensuring that money is traceable will be stamped down by every rational government - and every private court, PDA, DRO, or whatever angency enforces the law in whatever ancap system anyone may support.

Did we forget we are all pro-law here? I don't recall there being any left-anarchists here, just ancaps, minarchists, and classical liberals or other small government types. None of these systems is anti-law. None hope for making criminal investigation more difficult/impossible. None should want anything to do with the Ring of Gyges that is perfect anonymity, meaning complete immunity to investigation. That is nothing but a dystopian nightmare.

For those wondering about mass surveillance, it is prevented by the impracticality of compelling disclosure from everyone who may have been a relevant party in a chain of transactions. Individuals on ordinary Western income will control on the order of 100,000 addresses. It's not going to be possible to mass surveil people other than by measures so draconian that their effect would be equal with or without Bitcoin, and it would be computationally impractical in any case.

Besides which, a transparent ledger that comports perfectly with all existing monetary legal traditions in advanced countries does not give government any mandate to implement such measures, whereas an anonymous money does. If you want a surveillance state, achieving widespread adoption of anonymous money is the way to get it. The voters (or PDA customers) scared shitless of having their kids kidnapped and sold on the hyper-efficient black markets by impossible-to-apprehend criminals will give them that mandate without a word of fuss.

Likewise, a Bitcoin-powered world lets us audit these enforcement agencies. They are a "tiny dot," after all, compared to the rest of the populace, and they have no right to privacy under law.

This is why sunshine is the real path to a free society, not darkness. Cryptoanarchy is a fool's vision, a total abandonment of law, a wholesale discarding of everything we have learned over the millennia about making society work, and an invitation to complete lawlessness or authoritarianism to halt it. Dark is not the path to liberty. Light is.

 

[Norway]

Well done, @torusJKL!

 

[trinoxol]

Also, LOL at "Satoshi" recruiting his unmentioned employees to try to derive the addresses of his mined coins. If you buy that, you'll buy anything.

There is no way to get the addresses without getting to the private keys first.

Maybe they are determining the "Satoshi coins" similarly to how the public has done it: using the nonce values. He also has private knowledge to make this process more reliable. Maybe this is good enough for the court process to move on.

The judge just needs a way to determine the amount that Craig has to pay in case he loses. It can be approximate.

Actually, the coins are just a sideshow. The interesting part is whether Kleiman has a case. Does he?

 

[freetrader]

cryptocached called it long before you did, @trinoxol

 

[cypherdoc]

CSW said he'd used this lawsuit to prove to the world he's Satoshi. that ain't happening. instead, there's more confusion than ever (not that i think it matters for BSV's success). why doesn't he sign for those first several blocks with the private keys he got from the Seychelles Trustee to end this once and for all? i don't buy that it couldn't/wouldn't be taken as almost definitive proof.

 

[kyuupichan]

The critical thinking is so poor and only getting worse. I'm looking forward to the CDS going into overdrive when Ira loses the lawsuit. It'll be reminiscent of the self-exploding lemmings in the video game.

 

[sgbett]

CSW said he'd used this lawsuit to prove to the world he's Satoshi. that ain't happening. instead, there's more confusion than ever (not that i think it matters for BSV's success). why doesn't he sign for those first several blocks with the private keys he got from the Seychelles Trustee to end this once and for all? i don't buy that it couldn't/wouldn't be taken as almost definitive proof.

Court hasn't asked him to? Why would you volunteer anything? How would it benefit him? *shrugs*

I'm seeing on a livestream RN that BU is mining on SV chain? Am I being bamboozled?

 

[lunar]

Not sure about mining, but looks like theres some BU nodes running on BSV

edited;

Also 128MB just mined

https://www.bitfire.io/blocks/590150

 

[Norway]

@sgbett

I'm seeing on a livestream RN that BU is mining on SV chain? Am I being bamboozled?

Yes, you're being bamboozled. They are looking at non-mining nodes.
https://sv.coin.dance/nodes/share

Nothing new:
https://sv.coin.dance/nodes/all

 

[sgbett]

Ah thanks, I thought it seemed a little bit odd given it would be a pretty big deal, and yet id seen no mention of it!

 

[79b79aa8]

heaven forbid BU lost its pristine purity

 

[cypherdoc]

Why would you volunteer anything? How would it benefit him?

he said he was going to prove he was Satoshi in court. he's actually doing the opposite by the inconsistencies in testimony. for example, he said he was going to crash the btc market next year but then turns around and said all btc will go to charity. which is it? he's creating more doubt than anything, to my mind. given the norm to prove ownership of BTC to date is to sign with the private key, why won't he do this publicly given he's supposedly done it in private multiple times already ? the goodwill and fulfillment of what mostly the crypto community and others have considered to be a standard of evidence would propel the BSV price significantly, imo. so what he gains is profit. that should be enough. what he loses in personal security is minimal since he's been claiming to be Satoshi for years now and everybody knows Satoshi owns alot of coins, so he's already put himself at risk.