- Dec 16, 2015
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Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
- Thread starter cypherdoc
- Start date
- Dec 16, 2015
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> There is a balance to be struck here, between upgrading too often and not upgrading at all even when the protocol clearly must compete against other protocols which do change (improve).
That is true.
> Bitcoin Cash must seek the middle road as long as it has room to improve and it has opportunity to do so.
That middle road does exist. The problem is the same problem that befalls government and politics: It is too easy to hijack the system and use power against the interests of other stakeholders.
Government could do wonderful things for the people. The problem is that it simply does not do that because it gets hijacked.
This risk exists in cryptocurrencies and it has manifested: Core has hijacked BTC and drives it against the wishes and interests of most people at the time the changes were made. The BTC community is only uniform now because dissenters were driven away and are working on BCH and BSV now.
BCH has been hijacked within months of it being created. They used similar tactics. Social pressure, backroom deals, taking the ticker, media manipulation and others.
The only solution for government is to have a tiny, very restricted government. It must live in fear of the people.
The only solution for cryptocurrencies is to freeze the protocol.
That is true.
> Bitcoin Cash must seek the middle road as long as it has room to improve and it has opportunity to do so.
That middle road does exist. The problem is the same problem that befalls government and politics: It is too easy to hijack the system and use power against the interests of other stakeholders.
Government could do wonderful things for the people. The problem is that it simply does not do that because it gets hijacked.
This risk exists in cryptocurrencies and it has manifested: Core has hijacked BTC and drives it against the wishes and interests of most people at the time the changes were made. The BTC community is only uniform now because dissenters were driven away and are working on BCH and BSV now.
BCH has been hijacked within months of it being created. They used similar tactics. Social pressure, backroom deals, taking the ticker, media manipulation and others.
The only solution for government is to have a tiny, very restricted government. It must live in fear of the people.
The only solution for cryptocurrencies is to freeze the protocol.
- Dec 16, 2015
- 2,806
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> I differ on the point of BCH having been hijacked. I think an attempt was made and it failed.
OK. I am not necessarily speaking of the technical roadmap. Rather, the power structures around Amaury are very dangerous. The leaked chat with him and his inner circle show that. These people are scheming and manipulative. There are armies of cult members around them.
It is my impression that these are the same structures that exist in Core.
These leaders are very willing to use their position for their own benefit. Whether this happens consciously or subconsciously I don't know.
Some people think of themselves as good while they are doing bad things. They delude themselves in finding justifications for their behavior.
Some people know that they are doing bad things. Those are the psychopaths.
OK. I am not necessarily speaking of the technical roadmap. Rather, the power structures around Amaury are very dangerous. The leaked chat with him and his inner circle show that. These people are scheming and manipulative. There are armies of cult members around them.
It is my impression that these are the same structures that exist in Core.
These leaders are very willing to use their position for their own benefit. Whether this happens consciously or subconsciously I don't know.
Some people think of themselves as good while they are doing bad things. They delude themselves in finding justifications for their behavior.
Some people know that they are doing bad things. Those are the psychopaths.
Just coming across this: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c9217l/rbtc_the_subreddit_that_doesnt_censor_explained/
The /r/btc Reddit is now using censorship just like /r/bitcoin. It's just the same thing.
The /r/btc Reddit is now using censorship just like /r/bitcoin. It's just the same thing.
Discovery documents given in good faith could have been digital copies. There may be hard copies in Craigs posession since the plaintiff claims he intentionally destroyed all of his potential evidence. And yes, there is means, motive, and opportunity for hackers to interfere. The US legal system is the best that money can buy.
lunar
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 1,001
- 4,290
Holy moly batman. This is next level. Vm vm vmmm
https://bico.media/d8508a372cf1a340d7cbab91bc4911f32b6782ead42807aef9fedd3bc4293280
https://bico.media/d8508a372cf1a340d7cbab91bc4911f32b6782ead42807aef9fedd3bc4293280
shilch
Member
- Mar 28, 2019
- 54
- 216
It's a web-based clone of the Windows XP UI, not an operating system: https://github.com/ShizukuIchi/winXP/
[doublepost=1562331957][/doublepost]You could do the same with pc.js though: https://www.pcjs.org/
[doublepost=1562331957][/doublepost]You could do the same with pc.js though: https://www.pcjs.org/
Zarathustra
Well-Known Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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_mr_e
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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I believe when Bitcoin has consensus to raise the blocksize, it will. For now people are paying the fees because a tx provides them value. This is a good thing. It is also incentivizing the most efficient use of the chain possible. Your cat videos do not require censorship resistance.
Also, I cannot be certain if bsv will deliver that without sacrificing censorship resistance. The problems of a massive chain will not be realized for a long time so it's great that you can advertise high tps now but the effects of this down the road are not well understood.
[doublepost=1562342111][/doublepost]
Serious question: what is with this capitalization of BitCoin?BCH collapsing - BitCoin Up
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bitsko
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- Aug 31, 2015
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_mr_e
Active Member
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Also disclaimer, I do indeed hold an equal amount of bsv as btc. For peace of mind in case I'm wrong. At a price of 1% of my btc stack it was a no brainier. 1% chance I'm wrong makes it a good bet. However, I firmly believe that breaking consensus was a big no no and against everything Bitcoin stands for and so I will continue to fight for btc. The block limit was added via consensus, it shall be raised via consensus.
Every party will use every tool at their disposal to shape consensus. Some will be more successful then others. Claims of censorship, dev control blah blah is all part of the consensus game of thrones but eventually when enough pressure builds one way, and the space continues to grow outside of Reddit, these tools will lose their effectiveness. If people truly believed btc would die without raising the block size, it will be raised. If you can't trust this process then all of crypto is broken.
Patience is virtue.
Every party will use every tool at their disposal to shape consensus. Some will be more successful then others. Claims of censorship, dev control blah blah is all part of the consensus game of thrones but eventually when enough pressure builds one way, and the space continues to grow outside of Reddit, these tools will lose their effectiveness. If people truly believed btc would die without raising the block size, it will be raised. If you can't trust this process then all of crypto is broken.
Patience is virtue.
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Woah the dustindollar? or a different dusty? Either way great to see you hereHi everybody, I'm back after a long break where a lot of things happenede in my life
I could not read everything but it seems like BSV got a lot of supporters, and that's a bit unexpected.
So I'm wondering if there could be enough interest to add official BSV support to Melis.
This would bring the most advanced multisignature and multiuser wallet into the BSV world, and also one of the most advanced way to securely store funds.
If there is someone willing to donate something to fund the (small) development necessary please write me privately.
Thanks!
wait. so you sold your airdrop BSV (or BCH). and then had to re-buy to reestablish the 1:1?
seeking a social concensus within BTC was impossible. intuitively, it should be obvious, imo. BTC had gained enough public exposure and was identified early on by TPTB to be a threat. way before 2009, gvt agencies like NSA had developed social media manipulation strategies to disrupt threats. SR is a great example along with an army of BCT and reddit socks. to think BTC could determine a concensus to raise blocksize is naive. this left big blockists no choice but to hard fork in the hope that enough miners would follow along to establish what some of us have called "Nakamoto Concenus": a non social form of decision making based on investment in hash/PoW. to say it has been successful is admittedly debatable since BCH nor BSV have overtaken the market in hash nor price. but it also hasn't been a failure since the sha256 BTC miners have not come in to destroy the fork alternatives of BCH or BSV. presumably this is b/c they see value in big block alternatives as a safety valve for the easily to comprehend need to switch to a fee based model long term according to the WP. there is also a timing element based on education and awareness of these elements which might be (is) taking way longer than big blockists had anticipated. but that's ok. we are not seeing sha256 based 51% attacks, spam attacks, or megablock poison block attacks that were supposed to happen according to the anti-bigblock FUD. whether there will be a tipping point, a slow grind, or a total failure for BSV/BCH to overtake BTC is unclear, but i think the logic that it will is sound. there can never be a social concensus to raise the blocksize limit on BTC b/c the socks have powerful ammunition to always disrupt this based on the sheer magnitude of 1MB4EVA propaganda that has been created by the core devs beginning 2013. you're more likely to get inflation as per the latest Peter Todd mutterings being cast about lately.
[doublepost=1562346949][/doublepost]also, claiming that there can't be massive losses inflicted on the entrenched BTC hodler crowd is also naive. remember back when i used to say often that >95% of investors will lose money investing in Bitcoin? this applies still to this day, imo. investing in market leader BTC for today's still mostly naive Bitcoin investor is hazardous given the quite viable alternatives of BSV. it took maybe 20 yrs of many losses for internet investors before it became clear it was here to stay and flourish.
[doublepost=1562347102][/doublepost]these two graphs are what i would equate with a "slow grind":
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoincashSV/comments/c9hxl8/game_over_bch/
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_mr_e
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
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Yes, I sold my bch at a massive 14% boost to my portfolio and bought the bsv at a much lower rate.
Personally I think CSW could be much more likely to be a government plant then it was that they planted to prevent a fork. This sudden push to make btc as traceable and law abiding as possible is concerning to say the least - especially when it comes at the cost of the efficiency of things like Wasabi, schnorr, lightning, privacy. You of all people should know about that last one.
I'm not saying there can't be massive loss on entrenched btc holders but I'm saying their shouldn't be. Destroying the massive economic activity that has occurred is not what I expected would happen with Bitcoin. It should continue to last through the ages for all participants imo.
People are uploading three hour episodes of Joe Rogan's podcast ffs. A one time payment to one miner force all nodes to hold that forever is CRAZY. A system like storj where you continually pay for your data makes sense for this kind of system. Hashes pointing to that data can go on chain.
Personally I think CSW could be much more likely to be a government plant then it was that they planted to prevent a fork. This sudden push to make btc as traceable and law abiding as possible is concerning to say the least - especially when it comes at the cost of the efficiency of things like Wasabi, schnorr, lightning, privacy. You of all people should know about that last one.
I'm not saying there can't be massive loss on entrenched btc holders but I'm saying their shouldn't be. Destroying the massive economic activity that has occurred is not what I expected would happen with Bitcoin. It should continue to last through the ages for all participants imo.
People are uploading three hour episodes of Joe Rogan's podcast ffs. A one time payment to one miner force all nodes to hold that forever is CRAZY. A system like storj where you continually pay for your data makes sense for this kind of system. Hashes pointing to that data can go on chain.
Norway
Well-Known Member
- Sep 29, 2015
- 2,424
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@_mr_e
There are 3 aspects of this that people should understand:
- Upload. You pay a miner fee to get your data into the valid blockchain.
- Store. A business should only store the data if they can make profit from it in the future. See the next step.
- Download. It's expensive to provide a service where people download data from your company. That's why download will not be free in the future. But very, very cheap.
The cool part of this: SPV. Anyone can verify that the data downloaded from a BSP (Bitcoin Service Provider, not a miner, just a normal data center) is genuine and a part of the blockchain by receiving a small block header every 10 minutes on their phone. The system is brilliant!
The free shit army doesn't understand the economics of bitcoin. As Ryan X Charles put it: "Any problem in bitcoin can be solved with bitcoin." In this case, storage and downloads.
[doublepost=1562351719][/doublepost]Hmm... I'm going to Twetch this post, as it is valuable. Maybe I'll make some money.
EDIT:
https://twetch.app/t/4077f91b0e030312d525bb6473c6504b01b49e70301a4a608c28253df881d254
EDIT 2: I'm in the green! I made money from this Twetch with 1 like. Maybe it will grow more.
This is false. A miner can prune his node.
There are 3 aspects of this that people should understand:
- Upload. You pay a miner fee to get your data into the valid blockchain.
- Store. A business should only store the data if they can make profit from it in the future. See the next step.
- Download. It's expensive to provide a service where people download data from your company. That's why download will not be free in the future. But very, very cheap.
The cool part of this: SPV. Anyone can verify that the data downloaded from a BSP (Bitcoin Service Provider, not a miner, just a normal data center) is genuine and a part of the blockchain by receiving a small block header every 10 minutes on their phone. The system is brilliant!
The free shit army doesn't understand the economics of bitcoin. As Ryan X Charles put it: "Any problem in bitcoin can be solved with bitcoin." In this case, storage and downloads.
[doublepost=1562351719][/doublepost]Hmm... I'm going to Twetch this post, as it is valuable. Maybe I'll make some money.
EDIT:
https://twetch.app/t/4077f91b0e030312d525bb6473c6504b01b49e70301a4a608c28253df881d254
EDIT 2: I'm in the green! I made money from this Twetch with 1 like. Maybe it will grow more.
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> The problems of a massive chain will not be realized for a long time
That is true. This is a key reason why it is so hard to convince small blockers. There is no way to prove to them that big blocks work except by waiting for 10 years and seeing that everything is fine.
> Also disclaimer, I do indeed hold an equal amount of bsv as btc. For peace of mind in case I'm wrong
That is very smart. A lot of hardcore BTC people will have been invested for 5-10 years, been millionaires and end up with zero.
> consensus game of thrones
In my mind the forks of BCH and BSV are a perfect demonstration of great forks. After the split everyone gets what they wanted.
Democracy operates on 50% consensus. The Bitcoin protocol operates at 100% consensus. If I don't like your chain I can take my toys and go home if that makes me better off. That's great.
[doublepost=1562352300][/doublepost]> also, claiming that there can't be massive losses inflicted on the entrenched BTC hodler crowd is also naive.
Yeah, why can there not be losses? You are entitled to nothing. You earn the consequences of your decisions.
Bitcoin does not work through being nice, cooperating, dancing happily in a circle. It works perfectly fine if every actor operates strictly according to their self-interests.
On a long time scale such as 20 years you cannot rely on social processes anyway. All kinds of weird things will happen. Selfish, destructive actors will appear. The system must be stable against that by construction.
That is true. This is a key reason why it is so hard to convince small blockers. There is no way to prove to them that big blocks work except by waiting for 10 years and seeing that everything is fine.
> Also disclaimer, I do indeed hold an equal amount of bsv as btc. For peace of mind in case I'm wrong
That is very smart. A lot of hardcore BTC people will have been invested for 5-10 years, been millionaires and end up with zero.
> consensus game of thrones
In my mind the forks of BCH and BSV are a perfect demonstration of great forks. After the split everyone gets what they wanted.
Democracy operates on 50% consensus. The Bitcoin protocol operates at 100% consensus. If I don't like your chain I can take my toys and go home if that makes me better off. That's great.
[doublepost=1562352300][/doublepost]> also, claiming that there can't be massive losses inflicted on the entrenched BTC hodler crowd is also naive.
Yeah, why can there not be losses? You are entitled to nothing. You earn the consequences of your decisions.
Bitcoin does not work through being nice, cooperating, dancing happily in a circle. It works perfectly fine if every actor operates strictly according to their self-interests.
On a long time scale such as 20 years you cannot rely on social processes anyway. All kinds of weird things will happen. Selfish, destructive actors will appear. The system must be stable against that by construction.
_mr_e
Active Member
- Aug 28, 2015
- 159
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So the claims that data uploaded to bsv will be there forever is false then? If miners can't profit from it, it disappears. Again, a service dedicated to the storage and payments for large distributed files such as storj makes way more sense here.
