Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

@freetrader

>Please explain to me exactly how I've profited from what has been done to BTC.

you don't have investments in BTC? that'd be news to me. BTC's price levels exist in part from defending it's early history by attacking/destroying other altcoins.

if you've never invested or profited from BTC, please correct me.

 

[Norway]

I don't know, but this is not the point.

My point is hash power is hash power.

People who put effort and money in defending/attacking a chain... they are all equal to me.

On the other hand it seems like for a bunch of us Ayre money are better/differnt than Roger Ver money.

We agree that the money/hashpower are independant of the owner. But I think a maximalist look at the battle as a great investment, while a multicoiner see opportunity cost. And that's why I think the multicoiners will lose as long as the maximalist has deep pockets.

 

[chriswilmer]

@awemany - this is the imgur link

That's fascinating... what slack channel is that?

 

[freetrader]

@chriswilmer : allegedly the 'bchchat' slack
[doublepost=1542388705][/doublepost]

@freetrader

>Please explain to me exactly how I've profited from what has been done to BTC.

you don't have investments in BTC? that'd be news to me.

if you've never invested or profited from BTC, please correct me.

It'd all be news to you since you know nothing about my investments, and that's how it is going to stay.
You still failed completely to explain to me exactly how I've profited, and are just here speculating.

BTC's price levels exist in part from defending it's early history by attacking/destroying other altcoins.

Or rather, despite. See how easy it is to make unfalsifiable arguments.

 

[cypherdoc]

>It'd all be news to me since you know nothing about my investments, and that's how it is going to stay.
>You still failed completely to explain to me exactly how I've profited, and are just here speculating.

lol, odds are great you do own BTC and have profited off of it; while failing/refusing to acknowledge that BTC mining has the same storied history that you want to smear onto SV even though CSW's not done a thing yet except not implement replay protection, which is the right thing to do, and what should have been allowed to play out Aug 17.

i don't really care about your personal investments but don't sit there and try to reduce my assumption down to mere speculation.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

Oh wait, let's unroll this one.
I hate to say it @cypherdoc, but you seem like the 95% you so often spoke of in this thread. And you're not alone, I see a bunch of reasonably intelligent people by your side.

Maybe this is because those people have some reaons? I predicted weeks ago that CTOR will significantly weaken BCH, because it risks to split the chain.

 

[Jonathan Vaage]

The 1st post-fork checkpoint was not that surprising. In the near term, if we see a 2nd post-fork checkpoint and nothing else of note, that's a BFD.

 

[cypherdoc]

Or rather, despite. See how easy it is to make unfalsifiable arguments.

ok, try this one on.

CSW will do the right thing despite his bluster and thunder. see how easy it is to assume the worst in ppl?

and your argument holds no water. the fact is, BTC HAS destroyed other chains. if you are so morally correct, why do you allow yourself to remain invested (yes, i'm going to keep assuming that until you refute).

 

[wrstuv31]

Dealing with the inflated ego of the ABC devs should be the next step after killing the CSW threat.

Sure, ABC will willingly step down once there is no one pressuring them to do so. A future promise, to motivate an action in the present, then a coming redefining of what the promise actually was. eg. "Oh, ABC bumped the cap a little, it's perfectly reasonable to say that all previous concerns are completely irrelevant. Anyone bringing them up is just (something condescending/hostile)"

must only be interpreted in the narrow sense of whether the miner is providing a net benefit to the majority of the ecosystem for the coin

Who is measuring the benefit and majority? POW is the only way to accurately measure a majority, and voting is continuous. If you think the most important part of an event if the label attached to it, you might be a BTC fan.

Why did ABC need to add CTOR and DSV? This is the new change that disrupted the ecosystem. Why is this worth the millions they're spending on it? It's not for a moral crusade, if it was you would be ill advised to go along with such a thing. If it's not a crusade, what's their plan? Why can't they use CSWs hashrate to their plans advantage?

It must be, that their plan has little to with the original bitcoin protocol.

 

[freetrader]

In the near term, if we see a 2nd post-fork checkpoint and nothing else of note, that's a BFD.

Back to the whitepaper you go, specifically to the last sentence.
[doublepost=1542389917][/doublepost]

ok, try this one on.

CSW will do the right thing despite his bluster and thunder. see how easy it is to assume the worst in ppl?

I extend too much credit. In the case of CSW, fortunately I managed to stop myself, but I still regret giving him the benefit of the doubt far too long.

and your argument holds no water. the fact is, BTC HAS destroyed other chains. if you are so morally correct, why do you allow yourself to remain invested (yes, i'm going to keep assuming that until you refute).

I don't have to be "morally correct" - I don't know what that even means.
People follow certain ethical codes, I have my own, it's fine if everyone else has theirs, I am going to act on my own convictions, you too are free to do as you wish.

Who is "correct"? When it comes to Bitcoin's success, I believe in the free market to show us that.

p.s. I consider "morally correct" as moralizing language meant to manipulate. Read some Nietzsche.

 

[cypherdoc]

@freetrader

btw, we have many pro ABC folk in this thread talking about reorging the SV chain, being totally fine with checkpoints, ddos's, and all manner of counter attacks. why aren't you criticizing them? or does your morality only extend to your favored side?

 

[freetrader]

we have many pro ABC folk in this thread talking about reorging the SV chain

Show me - where?

 

[cypherdoc]

I don't have to be "morally correct" - I don't know what that even means.

sure you know what it means --> you've been vociferously criticizing CSW's talk of reorging/attacking ABC; while ignoring the FACT that BTC has done the same thing. and which i assume you've profited from. and while ABC supporters talk freely about doing the same thing to SV w/o a peep from you.

 

[chriswilmer]

It's hard to be wrong. Seems like I have been wrong in my prediction how cenrtral people in BCH will act. Maybe I have been lured into the CSW story too much, because I WANTED to believe that Bitcoin Cash ist something more than ABC-Coin backed by BTC-hashpower. Maybe you remember, I freaked out about this BEFORE SV became I thing. If the war is already over - and some of you wish - it just made this fact harder to deny.

Did you notice that on the SV-side of the table you find mostly "BCH Maximalists", while on the ABC-side people rather tend to think that BCH is just an altcoin. .

I am a BCH maximalist and I want to stay as far away from the SV-side as possible. All of you who are following Craig are being ridiculous. Literally anyone can show up and *say what you want to hear* and pretend to be Satoshi... there is nothing that stops any random person from doing that. Do you want to follow any random stranger down their path? The Craig/nChain folks use *rampant* social engineering including censorship for pete's sake... how could anybody in this forum want to give control to those guys? Because that's what they want.... not 128 MB blocks... they want control.

It has *nothing* to do with BCH maximalism vs. seeing BCH as an altcoin/payment mechanism.

 

[freetrader]

while ignoring the FACT that BTC has done the same thing. and which i assume you've profited from

You think I haven't been vocal against attacks by BTC against other cryptos?

Then you can't be helped.

 

[cypherdoc]

@freetrader

If SV starts reorg on BCH, it is fair game to do reorgs on BSV. Including mutual exclusion mining.

[doublepost=1542390501][/doublepost]> You think I haven't been vocal against attacks by BTC against other cryptos?

where? we're talking mining attacks here.

 

[freetrader]

where?

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/merge-mining-with-a-possible-core-fork.1937/#post-36509

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if CSW *is* Luke's father.

 

[cypherdoc]

@freetrader

i consider that merely a handwave. given the height of your moral highground, i'd suggest giving back/burning all your BTC profits.
[doublepost=1542391466][/doublepost]

I am a BCH maximalist and I want to stay as far away from the SV-side as possible. All of you who are following Craig are being ridiculous. Literally anyone can show up and *say what you want to hear* and pretend to be Satoshi... there is nothing that stops any random person from doing that. Do you want to follow any random stranger down their path? The Craig/nChain folks use *rampant* social engineering including censorship for pete's sake... how could anybody in this forum want to give control to those guys? Because that's what they want.... not 128 MB blocks... they want control.

It has *nothing* to do with BCH maximalism vs. seeing BCH as an altcoin/payment mechanism.

this is such a perversion of my argument, i don't know what to say.
[doublepost=1542391872][/doublepost]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if CSW *is* Luke's father.

this is exactly the type of truculent language i've been watching for weeks now.

 

[Christoph Bergmann]

@cypherdoc

It's literally nothing more than: "I'm a BCH maximalist, but CSW CSW CSW".

I guess some people would give up everything when CSW promotes it ... Seems like the philosophical divide is beyond hope ...

 

[Richy_T]

BTC was a speculation that you as an adult consciously and willingly choose to use for profit and status despite it having an actual miner attack history

I'm not responsible for the actions of others and I don't think that BTC carries that stain just because of the actions of a few. I believe I've provably always held a poor view of Luke-Jr's actions in this matter. I do accept that they are something that can't really be prevented and that it is the kind of thing that has to be expected but that doesn't mean I condone the action. (Though actually, I would find it more reasonable in the case of a hostile fork such as BCH's than Jr's ideologically driven pathological actions).

Edit: Also watch where you're aiming your accusations. I don't believe I've ever used it as an argument against SV or have even argued against SV in general.