Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
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satoshis_sockpuppet

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
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Holy shit, what a mess.

(And BU not affected!)

Can someone tell me, why people just ack a change that is so dangerous? This wasn't a P2P messaging part, this was a change in the "core" of the code.. And it was done to win 0.5 ms (!) in validation..
Without any discussion it was "acked" by the superstar devs. (And mind, Greg Maxwell seems to be much more careful normally)

I wouldn't be too surprised if this bug was introduced on purpose...
 

awemany

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Aug 19, 2015
1,387
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Hey folks, I have been very busy the last few days. I was working on sketching more of a potential solution to the 0-conf trust problem. Here's my proposal (and obligatory reddit discussion):

https://old.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9hnw53/solving_the_0conf_problem_using_forfeits/

Feedback wanted!

I consider this a good case for OP_CHECKDATASIG/-VERIFY.

EDIT: Oh and I should probably note somewhere: Thanks to @solex for the naming. He suggested to use 'forfeit' instead of 'insurance', which is a lot more accurate.
 
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torusJKL

Active Member
Nov 30, 2016
497
1,156
Interesting approach.
I like that it uses the new OP_Codes, gives miners incentives and does not solely assume that miners do the right thing.

There would still be a small risk if the double spender colludes with a miner and this miner manages to mine the next block with the double spend.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
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@awemany what's your latest feelings on CTOR?
[doublepost=1537545326,1537544474][/doublepost]man, i could get to liking snakes:

[doublepost=1537546111][/doublepost]Corallo must be scrambling like hell. serves him right. he's one of the most arrogant of all core devs. iirc, he was all over ABC and BU opining about their vulnerabilities.
[doublepost=1537546819][/doublepost]does anyone remember when all this diversity was supposed to be a good thing?:

https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/
 

cypherdoc

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Aug 26, 2015
5,257
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i loved all the meta discussion; might as well get some mileage, eh? ;)

1BCH on it's way, BCH! and i say that only with admiration!
 

awemany

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2015
1,387
5,054
Thank you so much @cypherdoc!! On the above question of CTOR, I can only say I am neutral now. I think it is gray with a couple of advantages in the near and mid term and a couple (though likely less severe) disadvantages.

As I said in my article, I feel there's a lot of eyeballs needed to get BU as well as ABC and XT and the other implementations correct for the Nov fork.
 

cypherdoc

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
5,257
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you're welcome man. give it a few minutes, it's coming from an exchange so i don't have direct control over how long it takes.

you have been one of the All-Stars in this thread and for BU for a long time. you deserve all the kudos you get. we're lucky to have you. fuckin' A!
[doublepost=1537578627,1537578011][/doublepost]hmmm, Cobra going to work. watch out for this guy:

 

AdrianX

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2015
2,097
5,797
bitco.in
i just wanted to say that from everything i've read, i don't have a problem with CTOR; esp if it helps Graphene in regards to propagation. it's just that my priority has always been removal of the block limit.
I like the idea too, But given what has just happened with the CVE-2018-17144 bug the following to principals seem more valid now than just a day or two ago.

1) If it is not broken, don't fix it.

The above-mentioned vulnerability was made for an inconsequential benefit it introduced unnecessary risk. Unlike the 1MB transaction limit, resisting change to drew a lot of attention, the result is lots of attention was focus on the ramifications of changing it. By the time it came to change it the externalities were fairly well understood. Even in the face of a hostile takeover, the contingency plan of a minority fork had been aired and discussed and understood for well over a year before it became necessary.

It is my view that consensus rule changes should get this type of attention. Only efforts should be undertaken to avoid censorship and the banning of discussing competing ideas.

2) Regular Hard forks introduce unnecessary risk.

Forcing regular Hard Forks almost guarantees a homogenous monoculture, leaving the entire network vulnrable to an unintended bug.

The negative consequences of the above-mentioned bug were minimized by having older versions of the software running that had not adopted the change. The bitcoin Core network would probably have detected the bug had it been exploited as many older versions of the software were supporting the existing social contract.

Should a change be made to the network while everyone is forced to adopt it, redundancies are lost. ABC, in my view, is proceeding recklessly, 1 by introducing new hard consensus rules and 2, forcing universal adoption via scheduled hard forks.

Had BU reindexed off ABC or Core to stay current this bug would have affected BCH in that it could have been exploited with impunity, because of the nature of hard forking. Core would have detected it because there are some faithful BU nodes running on the BTC network who don't follow core. Not to mention it was found because of the differences.

I had a brief chat with @Mengerian who gave me a quick history lesson on the OP_CHECKDATASIG and OP_CHECKDATASIGVERIFY, the OP code development process being rather political and inefficient, and the cause of some frustration. Origination with @theZerg reevaluated and rebuilt by ABC, and then coming back to BU to implement by @awemany.

I'm forced to acknowledge the most efficient path is not the efficient part given what was uncovered doing it the inefficient way, it made for the most efficient resolution to the CVE-2018-17144 bug.
 

Peter R

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Aug 28, 2015
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satoshis_sockpuppet

Active Member
Feb 22, 2016
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But I have yet to see anything resembling an admission of being imperfect by the developer in question, or any other prominent Core developer for that matter. The folks in question know exactly who I mean. There must be more reasonable folks in Core, but they are rather silent.
https://archive.fo/W1gdf

Why admit to being imperfect when you can just throw insults like "Lying piece of shit." at the developers who report bugs to your project.