Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Norway]

@Justus Ranvier
Why can't an exchange or payment processor use SPV?

 

[adamstgbit]

@Norway

they are required for any service that accepts bitcoin as payment, without relying on a 3rd party.

the "light wallets" we have today, connect to a node when they need info about the blockchain. if that node is compromised, it can F up everyone that relies on it.
its probably "just fine" for a simple user to use, but as soon as you need some slightly better assurance that what you see is what you get, you need a full node.
maybe some "fraud prof SPV" wallet thingy is going to change the name of the game, but AFAIK, it hasn't been invented yet.

also:

IMO if the blockchain is only verified by 20 high powered mining pool servers, bitcoin is no long sufficiently decentralized, so it's probably not a good idea to push as hard as possible in that direction.

 

[Justus Ranvier]

@Norway It doesn't matter what type of node they run. The willingness of those businesses to accept blocks affects the profitability of mining those blocks.

 

[wrstuv31]

The nodes operated by major exchanges and payment processors matter.

Wouldn't it be wise for those nodes to also be mining, to ensure a last resort BTC income during price disruptions.

 

[Justus Ranvier]

@wrstuv31 That's a business decision for those companies to make which isn't relevant to the original question.

 

[79b79aa8]

adam - what's your point? exchanges and payment processors run a full node for the security of their customers. they may not be interested in mining, but they need a copy of the blockchain at all times to make sure nobody is getting duped, which would come back to bite them.

it's the cost of doing business. lots of business.

 

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

@adamstgbit $600 per block is what, $3 million per month a company is paying in fees for their game txs? It means a major gaming company doing serious transactions, which means Bitcoin is a big thing and the price is much higher.

But anyway, still never seen a reason why these noduley things matter for the little guy in any realistic scenario. Your node host can't mess up your SPV. There is no trust. The worst they could do is inconvenience you by claiming there was an issue. That's why you poll many nodes just to be super, ultra sure.

Miners themselves could handle way bigger blocks even than that. Core's tall tales need to die. If we're not talking at least as big as we were back in 2012, something's seriously wrong, as that was 5 years ago. I feel like we got some lingering trauma from Core.

 

[torusJKL]

@adamstgbit
Nobody have managed to explain to me what a node that is not mining do for the network. Maybe you can. If they are important, I want to know why.

I run a public Electron Cash server so that others (and myself) can connect to it and use SPV.

Maybe future ElectrumX versions can connect to a remote node to get the updates but for now I need to run a local full node.

 

[adamstgbit]

adam - what's your point? exchanges and payment processors run a full node for the security of their customers. they may not be interested in mining, but they need a copy of the blockchain at all times to make sure nobody is getting duped, which would come back to bite them.

it's the cost of doing business. lots of business.

my point is node costs matter

where do you draw the line?
we only have to worry about big business being able to run a node?
and why are we doing this?
is including GB of spam ( less then 1cent TX fees ) worth it?


i'm totally fine with 5GB block even right now, IF their is legit demand for it. if i see 5GB blocks filled with 0.00000000001cent fee paying TX, i'm going to go be a core shill man.
ok maybe i wouldn't go that far.

 

[awemany]

But anyway, still never seen a reason why these noduley things matter for the little guy in any realistic scenario. Your node host can't mess up your SPV. There is no trust. The worst they could do is inconvenience you by claiming there was an issue. That's why you poll many nodes just to be super, ultra sure.

That is why it surprises me that the popular electrum SPV node developer is such an ardent small blocker.

He assumes people trust the SPV model, yet one of the points that Greg and other prominent small blockers always go to as a last resort when addressing the objection that SPV is viable for most people is that 'Satoshi's SPV is very insecure'.

On another note, I recently had a bigger BCH transaction sitting for hours in the mempool at like 0.2 Sat/B. Seems like the Cash miners don't work for free either - and I am fine with that

 

[satoshis_sockpuppet]

On another note, I recently had a bigger BCH transaction sitting for hours in the mempool at like 0.2 Sat/B. Seems like the Cash miners don't work for free either - and I am fine with that

Should have used a Lightning TX, they are virtually free I heard.

 

[adamstgbit]

spiked ahead to the most exciting bit for you 44:29


either this guy legitimately believes that there are only really 3 people involved in bitcoin cash, or hes a core shill.

either way hes a one stupid mother fucker!
this video is gr8, this guy just makes an ass of him self the whole time.

 

[torusJKL]

this video is gr8, this guy just makes an ass of him self the whole time.

Interestingly both sides of the debate say the same.
But about the other person.

 

[adamstgbit]

@adamstgbit $600 per block is what, $3 million per month a company is paying in fees for their game txs? It means a major gaming company doing serious transactions, which means Bitcoin is a big thing and the price is much higher.

the pretend BCH-game is producing 600$ of revenue for every GB of TX it creates. the devs are paying 500$/GB of block space, and they are doing 1GB/ten mins.

this dost necessarily mean BCH has become a big thing, just mean this game would be abusing the low fees and unlimited block space.

i wont have it! #nospam4me

 

[albin]

@Justus Ranvier
Why can't an exchange or payment processor use SPV?

It's conceivable from a risk analysis point of view, in the sense that it might make economic sense to spend PoW to attack an exchange.

 

[adamstgbit]

buying a BCH a day keeps the mofo away.

 

[NewLiberty]

That gave me an idea. The miners could selfish mining the Core chain to expedite the flippening.

Deleted it. Am not interested in credit for inspiring folks to incite frivolous attacks.

 

[Tom Zander]

For those that asked me what I've been thinking about next, I wrote on yours.org;

On the path to Freedom of innovation

 

[Dusty]

@Justus Ranvier
Why can't an exchange or payment processor use SPV?

Because SPV nodes are unable to verify if new coins are created out of thin air?

 

[wrstuv31]

@hari

How about no?